Nick Heidfeld, Renault, Montreal, 2011

Renault oppose postponing 2013 engine rules

F1 Fanatic round-up

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In the round-up: Renault say F1’s credibility is at risk in the row over future engine rules.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Renault in ‘red zone’ over 2013 engines (Autosport)

Renault Sport managing director Jean-Francois Caubet: “The problem to delay is that in Renault if you say, okay, the new engine will arrive in 2015, then the credibility will be zero. That is a key point.”

Decisions, Decisions (The Austin Chronicle)

“If we sign this contract to allow the state to give our tax money to F1, that’s precisely what they will do, and the best that could possibly happen after that is that any additional money we spend on F1 events could theoretically be reimbursed after the fact, at the sole discretion of Comptroller Combs, after all other obligations under the as-yet-unwritten contracts are paid off. That’s crazy, and it’s crazy that we’re even considering something like this.”

Sutton images

Austin track development pictures.

F1 organizers launch website, ad touting race benefits (Austin-American Statesman)

“According to austinf1facts.com and the accompanying ad, Formula 1 will draw thousands of fans from around the world and millions of television viewers. It also says construction of the circuit has and will provide jobs. The website has links to photos, videos and more.”

Ecclestone: ‘People are wrong to attack Lewis Hamilton’ (The Independent)

“What we want is people racing, and all the people who watch it want that. If you analyse what’s been happening and how other drivers have been performing, Lewis shows up very well, and so do Sebastian [Vettel] and Jenson [Button]. So let him race. That’s what people like him do. I was very, very good friends with [Ayrton] Senna, and if you look at what he did, he was a racer too, and people had to move over for him.”

Jenson Button says signing long-term McLaren deal would ‘make no sense’ (The Guardian)

“For me, it makes no sense to sign a long-term contract. I don’t know how I’m going to feel in a few years. I can’t imagine racing at 40, I just want to race for as long as I can win.”

Lucas di Grassi on Twitter

“Jerez F1 Pirelli testing day one. 150+ laps. Ambient 35C+. Track 50C+. 8+ litres of water (for me). 22 jamon sandwiches (for the mechanics).”

The wings behind Red Bull (The Sun)

Red Bull chief designer Rob Marshall: “The reason why we’re struggling with KERS is a combination of giving ourselves a little bit too much to do in too short a time, and the challenge in the way we have decided to package the car.”

Follow F1 news as it breaks using the F1 Fanatic live Twitter app.

Comment of the day

Hairs on the Bahrain Grand Prix:

The whole Bahrain affair was transparent from start to finish, and yet again FOM and FIA assume that the fans, and the public, are idiots and sheep. We all know that many of the teams are absolutely dependent on Middle Eastern money. We all know that Bernie wants to guarantee his ever increasing race fees, and doesn?t care where it comes from. We all know that Bahrain has done its best to put on a good event every year, and while the country may be in trouble that doesn?t mean that the race organisers are to blame.

The whole repeated ??The sport must not be political?? line taken by FOM and FIA, when it was utterly transparent that F1 was being used entirely for political purposes, was ridiculous and sad. Trying to throw the brand new Indian GP under the bus to fit that political agenda was both pointless and rude.
Hairs

From the forum

Who’s going to Goodwood?

Going to Silverstone?

If you’re going to Silverstone for the British Grand Prix this year and you’re a McLaren fan, Firecracker Films want to hear from you:

Firecracker Films are currently making a series of short films in which we follow McLaren Formula 1 drivers, Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button, during the Grand Prix season. The films are part of an international advertising campaign for one of McLaren’s main sponsors, Johnnie Walker. Not only will the films be profiling Lewis and Jenson as characters, but we also want to portray the F1 world that exists around them.

The Silverstone film will particularly focus on the McLaren fans and the buzz that surrounds the Grand Prix. We are looking to find out what McLaren fans will be doing all over the country during the Silverstone weekend.

Are you doing anything special for the British Grand Prix? Maybe you’re attending a fun event that we should know about or maybe you’re holding a big party for the occasion.

If you are an McLaren super-fan who is doing something exciting away from the track over the British GP weekend, please contact natasha.zinni@firecrackerfilms.com. All conversations are completely confidential and there is absolutely no pressure to take part in the final filming.

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Beninlux, JonathanProc and vikenbauer!

On this day in F1

Reigning champion Giuseppe Farina won the Belgian Grand Prix for Alfa Romeo 60 years ago today.

The Ferraris of Alberto Ascari and Luigi Villoresi completed the podium at Spa-Francorchamps, but Farina’s closest pursuer was three minutes in arrears after the two-and-three-quarter-hour race.

Here’s a brief clip from the race:

Image ?? Renault/LAT

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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  • 67 comments on “Renault oppose postponing 2013 engine rules”

    1. nice to see COTA is really starting to take shape, im fascinated by circuit design

      1. don’t get your hopes up! The Austin track is just another Tilke production (a few long straights connected by corners taken from other tracks…)

        1. Except that the approach to a corner isn’t dictated solely by that corner alone. Every corner on the circuit influences every other corner. Montreal, for example, is a low-downforce circuit. But if you took out the top hairpin and replaced with with Turn 8 from Istanbul, you would totally change the dynamics of the track because that corner would be high-downforce. Thus, the approach to every other corner would be totally different.

          Although a fair portion of the Austin circuit has been lifted from Silverstone, there are other factors that influence it. For example, Silverstone has Maggotts-Becketts-Chapel bookended by two long straights. At CotA, there are two additional corners either side. In a previous life, Silverstone was known as RAF Silverstone; it’s an airport circuit, and like (almost) all airports, it’s completely flat. In Austin, those corners are in the middle of a series of undulations that will directly influence cornering speeds and racing lines.

          The same goes for the Turn 8 replica. In Turkey, that corner is almost completely flat and taken at full throttle. In Austin, it’s downhill, off-camber, has a tightening radius and is one of the narrowest points of the circuit. It is also preceded by a short straight leading out of a low-speed corner complex, meaning that the cars will be accelerating through it rather than taking it flat-out.

          They may sound like subtle changes, but they’re taken in a completely different way to their parent circuits.

          1. PM I hope you are right, you probably are because Tilke must be aware of the fans displeasure and we know you are only Bernies favourite son as long as you look like a winner. I know nothing about traffic flow, carparks, Grandstands, toilets per 1000 persons etc. but I bet I could design a great race track from the spectators point of view. How hard could it be?

        2. None of these new tracks have any character. Tracks like Spa, Monza, Canada have character. All the new tracks are boring and sparse, built in the middle of nowhere. No soul.

          1. If someone proposed building a circuit near a tiny village in Northamptonshire or in the middle of the Ardennes forest would you also think that’s lacking ‘soul’?

            I think some of the current circuits are brilliant, especially Istanbul Park.

            1. I wouldn’t go so far as to say “Brilliant”

              Good yes, but Suzuka and Spa are “Brilliant.”

          2. Doance, get real, nobody builds a racetrack in the most expensive part of town, you only get racing between the walls in those locations.

    2. I’m sorry Renault but maybe you should follow the LMP1 like Audi. It uses turbo diesel, v6 engines and uses 42% less fuel then F1 over 18 races. 1.6 litre shouldn’t go through and should be reconsidered when other sports more relevant to road cars i.e le mans and ALMS are producing more efficient engines and safer cars for the road and much greener.

      I get fed up of hearing teams say it’s not relevant the irony is if the teams used a 3.0L engine turbo diesel audi, nissan, ford and many other manufactures would be interested.

      Does this sport want people investing or not? Same with tires 13 inch wth? go to 15 inch wheels and more tire companies would inject more money into the sport, instead they constantly shoot themselves in the foor!

      1. I fail to see how moving to 15 or 18 inch tyres will help, when no road tyre would be able to cope with the stress of an F1 car in the first place, and an F1 tyre would wear out in days on a road car. More meaningless speculative marketing.

        1. You don’t see how? Name a car today that uses 13 inch wheels? We have 15 inch, 18 and 20. Those are relevant to road cars. You say no road tyre would be able to cope with a stress of a F1 car this is true, but no road car can create the level of downforce making the statement redundant.

          What the tyre makers find out is how those compounds work in high stress, it allows them to come up with new initiatives and new compounds that are environmentally friendly and provide consistency. A lot of F1 tyre compounds do make it to the road just it is one supplier many aren’t interested in 13 inch wheels. just google F1 about what tyre manufacturers wanted even pireli wanted a bigger wheel. http://www.manipef1.com/news/articles/11362/

          1. MVEilenstein
            17th June 2011, 1:44

            Name a car today that has a nose cone and seats one.

            Road car relevance as it relates to F1 is, well, irrelevant.

            1. jsw11984 (@jarred-walmsley)
              17th June 2011, 2:05

              An Aerial Atom gets pretty close, as does the BAC Mono, Radical Sr3 RS, KTM X-Bow R etc…

            2. Caparo t1

            3. according to this picture maybe not the T1 after all.

              http://cdn2.worldcarfans.co/2007/6/medium/1070629.002.1M.jpg

              sure as heck doesn’t look comfy though lol.

            4. Doesn’t that T1 catch fire after some time of driving?

            5. That’s a design feature by burning up all the air around it the car has less drag. ;)

            6. And what percentage of road cars do those models mentioned make up? 0.00001%? I think F1 bares little resemblance to road cars. Yes you can take the odd bit of technology, but certainly the tyres aren’t one of them, and I doubt neither are the engines as a whole. GT racing, Touring Cars, and LMP to a slightly lesser extent would be a much better place to develop those ideas. I don’t see why these forms of racing can’t be the peak of technology for road cars. Single seaters are just too far removed from my Fiesta.

            7. I agree with ajokay.

              In my opinion it’s the material science, the aerodynamics and the manufacturing and design processes that can still affect the road cars of today.

          2. My VW Polo has 13″ Alloy wheels and very nice they are too thank you.

            It’s the one way in which my car is like an F1 car so please don’t change that!!

      2. Who gives a crap if F1 is ‘relevant to our road cars’?

        It’s like saying premiership football is relevant to running for a bus.

        I want the cutting edge of engineering applied to F1. I don’t want it turned into a souped-up city runabout competition.

        I follow F1 to escape the daily drudge, not to judge how close or far it takes me away from it!

        1. Who gives a crap if F1 is ‘relevant to our road cars’?

          High-volume car manufacturers who sign massive cheques for racing programmes.

          For example, Audi’s Wolfgang Ulrich:

          “Our goal is track to road technology. The best proof of technology is success in motorsport. Lightweight construction, downsized engines and greater economy – they are as relevant for the road as they are for the track.”

          1. I can’t see why is so difficult for some people to understand this.

            I dont think that car manufacturers care about the planet. They just want to sell cars. And nowadays more and more people demand high-efficient technologies in road cars.

            So its a very simple equation.

            The most stupid argument is “they use more fuel flying all over the World blablabla”. FIA and Ecclestone doesn’t give a **** about the pollution and all that. They just want to please the people who bring the money: CAR MANUFACTURERS (maybe, I said MAYBE except Ferrari)

        2. Here is another company that would be more interested if they could put more of their exiting ideas about the powertrain into F1:

          http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-new-cars/Search-Results/Spyshots/BMW-i8-electric-supercar-2013-first-spy-photos/

          Now they are doing sportscars, going back into DTM and making interesting hybrid supercar efforts instead.

          1. Thats right and going back a few decades you can see that road engines of today perform like race engines of the past.Twin cam engines in road cars 50 years ago? Jaguar, Alfa, Aston, Maserati and maybe Ferarri + all the esoteric ones you can think of I’ve missed.Mainstream road cars developing max power over 6000 rpm 50 years ago, zero. Racing improves the breed.

    3. I got COTD?

      It’s been so long, I’m not even prepared. It’s the butler’s day off, where do I get the champagne from? I knew I should have built another cellar up here. Damned cheap, only having one decent refrigeration system in the house. I’d give the architect a piece of my mind, but I can’t find the telephone.

      1. Ha, that’l show you not to come unprepared! A very nice COTD Hairs.

      2. I need to get a COTD!

    4. You know, I never thought about it, but why does Infinity sponsor Red Bull? Shouldn’t they sponsor Renault?

      1. That would make it the Infinity – Lada – Lotus – Renault

      2. The gold and black cars are already sponsored by hundreds of car companies.

      3. The French would be up in arms if Renault used their Japanese brand as an engine sponsor.

        Red Bull is an Austria/England team, so that’s perfectly OK.

      4. If I had the money, I know who I’d be sponsoring… The reining constructors champions, who have the reining drivers champion driving for them, who have had a walkover when it comes to race wins, pole positions and TV airtime.

      5. Infiniti is a sub-brand of Renault-Nissan. It doesn’t entirely answer your question, but I think Renault themselves just want to be an engine supplier going forward.

    5. Todt was too hasty in adopting the 2013 engine rule. Now he has created a mess.
      The concept of cheaper engines, should appeal to independent engine manufactures like Cosworth. Unfortunately, Corsworth find themselves in a situation where, the engines are going to be way to expensive to develop and unsellable to the teams.
      As things stand, only car manufacturers can afford to make these new engines and I personally don’t buy into the green credibility of the said engines.

      So if Renault will pull out from supplying engines, it is better that one manufacture pulls out than we lose 2, Mercedes and Cosworth.

      1. But we are in the process of gaining another.
        Ron is working on creating a Mclaren engine. Admittedly initially it will supply only 1 team.

      2. Thing is, this was worked out in very close cooperation with the engine manufacturers so having some of them backtracking now is disappointing.
        Why did they not make their views be known in those discussions? They might have agreed on something else then.

        I think Renault is right here. They don’t even whine about the road relevance as such, even if it is a point.
        The point Renault makes is, that with constantly moving the posts and changing what was agreed, their Board will have an incentive to reconsider as well and pull out of promises made in 2008/2009 because of this.

      3. Todt was too hasty in adopting the 2013 engine rule. Now he has created a mess.

        Todt hasn’t created a mess. It’s the teams who are responsible this time. The 2013 engine changes have been on the cards for some time. But teams like Ferrari and Mercedes don’t want to spend money redeveloping their engines, so they’re trying to stall for as long as possible.

        1. The teams didn’t come up with the idea, Todt was determined to force it through, he had said as much.

        2. Yes, the FOTA are responsible. They’re responsible for not saying to Todt straightaway, before it all got public, that if his idea for the new engine formula is FPP (four-pot pathetics) which the majority of the fans will hate, then he can stuff it up his $$$.

    6. Tiny turbo monsters with constantly improving potential for Hybrid power.

      It will be odd but it’ll be awesome

      Push it Renault

      I still havn’t heard any strong opinions from Mercedes either way on the matter, I’m sure they are well on their way to making it. It would be a chance for cosworth to catch up on development as everyone would be starting fresh.

      1. Yeah but it would also be a great chance to throw away millions of pounds of investment and development, in an engine that will by that time only be used for 3 seasons lol.

      2. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Ford waiting in the wings to become a part of Cosworth again, with major R&D development assistance. Ford’s investing pretty heavily on economical turbo-engined cars and trucks once more, and a reliable, fuel-efficient turbo F1 engine would appeal to their corporate world-wide car marketing.

      3. Exactly, bring it on!

      4. Starting fresh? Maybe they will just pull the engine out of their F1 museum, bore it out to 1600cc and hey,lets go racing.

    7. I’m slightly concerned by buttons comments even if they are printed on a newspaper website. He’s only 31 he could easily sign a long term deal with mclaren. He did say he wants to end his career there. I hope they are just manufactureing headlines about lewis and jenson, I would love to see the british dream team together for another 4 years at least.

      1. They may have referred to the rumored ‘lifetime’ contract that McLaren wanted with Hamilton.

        Regardless that they wrote the article saying only “long term”, then Button’s response to the actual ‘lifetime’ question. Reporters and editors do those things quite often to generate attention and drama for their interview stories.

      2. If there’s any truth in Lewis heading off to Red Bull, Jenson would do well to stick around at McLaren. He’d become their number one, highly experienced, ex-world champion driver, with a car built and shaped around his ideas, feedback, and driving style.

        1. Yeah, what a coup that would be.

    8. It’s not too crazy an idea at all. What’s crazy is the old rules in F1 racing that just tears you apart literally when accidents happen. Somebody should address that anytime soon.

      1. Huh? What idea?

      1. There was a rumour a while ago that Ridley Scott would be producing a new television series based on Grand Prix racing in the time of Fangio. 2014 would be a projected early production date.

        1. Sounds like Hollywood,”Grand Prix”4 Hunt makes Clarks girlfriend pregnant and agonises over what to do, Hill takes flying lessons and Brabham cobbles up a “starting money” special with surprise results.

    9. I really liked that article in the Statesman. Especially those discussions below it.

      I think the race will be great for F1 and for Austin and for the US.

    10. Interesting spelling of Autosport on the first link there Keith! Since it’s in reference to Renault, for a second I thought it might be a French publication. :-)

      1. Ha! Fixed it, thanks.

    11. From that Austin Chronicle article:

      But what’s being peddled here is the promise that it’s not really an investment at all, that our $40 million (well, okay, maybe $36 million) will somehow be reimbursed – which is absolutely, unequivocally, and completely untrue

      You know, for the arch-capitalists they supposedly are, some Americans have a great deal of difficulty grasping the concept of “getting a return on your investment.”

      Whatever money the state of Texas spends on the GP will be recouped, perhaps tens or hundreds of times over, by the growth in tourism and associated sectors that the GP allows. Yet people like the guy who wrote that column seem to be totally blind to this. (It’s not purely a US phenomenon, of course – similar economic illiteracy can be observed from people objecting to the GP in Melbourne, for instance).

      Perhaps it’s because the investment is coming from the state and is therefore Evil and Wasteful and Other Bad Things, rather than from a Good and Clean and Wholesome entrepreneur living the American Dream. Or maybe they’re just NIMBYs, in which case they can do what they like, as long as they stay well away from me.

    12. Hmmm Spa… I ****** me of as a Belgian that this race might disappear because they have been making loses for years now. But than again a few days back you hear that Bernie’s 22 year old daughter bought one of the most expensive houses in America…

    13. Are Renault going to put a 1 million Euro F1 engine in a Clio?

      1. They’ve put one in an Espace before.

        1. I was looking at that very car on my new-old copy of Gran Turismo 2 yesterday. Utterly crazy idea. Essentially an Espace shell lowered onto a 1994 (I think) Williams.

          1. Maybe they could fit the F1 engine to their next generation of this Megane that set a new front wheel drive lap record of the Nuerburgring Nordscheife!

      2. I would not be surprised to see a followup to the Wlliams Clio with a 1600cc turbo, after all in the last round of F1 turbo engines BMW were buying used BMW road-engine blocks to convert into F1 engines.

    14. Eh Keith…I believe Firecracker Films wants to hear from YOU!!!

      Don’t you organise an informal get-together of F1 Fanatics before/after qualis and before/after the Grand Prix during the Silverstone Grand Prix?

      Surely that’s what any film-maker wants: a bunch of “F1 Fanatics” gathered together representing every team and every driver, and brought together by their shared passion for the sport.

      By the way, if this information is wrong, I think that it’s a great idea and that you SHOULD organise a get-together of F1 Fanatics at some stage during the British Grand Prix Weekend!

      See you all there! Maybe we should all wear an F1 Fanatic T-Shirt!!!

    Comments are closed.