Pirelli wet tyre test, Abu Dhabi, 2011

Pirelli vexed by opposition to 2014 tyre tests

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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Pirelli wet tyre test, Abu Dhabi, 2011In the round-up: Pirelli are frustrated by repeated obstacles to their attempts to test tyres for 2014 after a planned test with McLaren was blocked.


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Pirelli want action on tyre testing (Reuters)

Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery: “We’re running around in a 2010 car, developing tyres for the 2014 car, which nobody really knows what it’s going to look like. Yet every time we even ask to test with a 2011 car we come up against opposition.”

Stefano Domenicali Q&A (Sky)

“If [Pirelli] are not able to test – that is not correct. You can say ‘we are the only team with the facilities to test’ but you can spend all your life in the simulator and you will not solve the issue of the tyres. So therefore we have said that they need to test and above all looking ahead to the future with the totally new car we need to help Pirelli and make sure we have some more tests for them, because otherwise I can understand the situation and it is frustrating because they have difficulties to overcome and no possibility to test.”

Formula One prize money accelerates to a record $751.8 million, but some teams still in trouble (AutoWeek)

“Company filings which are due to be released next week show that the payment to the teams rose 8 percent to $751.8 million [??467.5m] last year. That is 202-percent higher than in 2007 when the prize money only comprised a percentage of the fees from broadcasters rather than a cut of F1’s profits.”

Alonso praises ‘superb’ Hulkenberg (Autosport)

“He is driving very, very well and he deserved to be in front of us because he did a fantastic race.”

Lauda wants Brawn to stay at Mercedes (BBC)

“I am in negotiations with Ross Brawn. There’s no decision on how things will be in the long term.”

A document from Jean Todt (Joe Saward)

“A letter is being circulated amongst the clubs that tries to throw mud at [David] Ward?s campaign. This comes from Carlos Barbosa, the President of the Automovel Club de Portugal, who is complaining about ‘the aggressive tone being adopted against the current President, including the stirring up of false rumour and innuendo in the press, and the calling into question of the institution itself’ which, he feels, is ‘against the interest of the clubs’.”

Does Korea work as an F1 venue? (MotorSport)

“At the Yeongam track there was a sign from the local Governor which read: ‘Thank you Mr Ecclestone for the 2013 Grand Prix’, which brought a wry smile to many people?s faces. While they paid a reduced rate this season, figures of $20 million [??12.4m] were being bandied about.”


Comment of the day

@Jelle-Van-Der-Meer spotted a landmark statistic from Sunday’s race:

Vettel has now a higher win per race start percentage then Michael Schumacher:

  • Schumacher 91 out of 308 starts = 29.55%
  • Vettel 34 out of 115 starts = 29.56%


From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Rob Tsintas!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Gilles Villeneuve scored his first F1 win 35 years ago today in F1’s first race at the track which was later named after him.

Villeneuve took the win after Jean-Pierre Jarier, who had taken over the Lotus which had been driven by Ronnie Peterson until his death at Monza, dropped out with a damaged radiator. Jody Scheckter, who was poised to join Ferrari as Villeneuve’s team mate, took second ahead of the driver he was replacing, Carlos Reutemann.

Here’s highlights from the race:

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  • 103 comments on “Pirelli vexed by opposition to 2014 tyre tests”

    1. Well, Pirelli, don’t agree on a test at a track shortly before a race at the same track! It is understandable that the other teams would not like it.

      1. @mike-dee – Actually, the teams have opposed Pirelli using current or near-current cars to test ever since they entered the sport. They don’t want their technical data getting out.

        1. Whose technical data? The 2011 cars? They’re not even remotely the same…
          Moreover, Ferrari did a test before the Spanish GP with their 2011, despite it being secret. I think these tests should be allowed.

      2. Chris (@tophercheese21)
        8th October 2013, 1:19

        IMO they should invite every team to do a test all together with the 2014 tyres with 2011 cars.
        Now that Mercedes have served their penalty, every team can participate.

        And it will be fair.

        1. @tophercheese21 This. Such a simple, transparent solution that would spare the sport a lot of drama and unfairness.

        2. David not Coulthard (@)
          8th October 2013, 3:30

          Just call Kartikheyan!

        3. Right up to the moment where the teams start manipulating their data to try and influence the development of the tyres.

        4. maarten.f1 (@)
          8th October 2013, 6:36

          @tophercheese21 I think teams will still complain. It’s a given that teams such as Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren and Mercedes will have a much easier time to run a test than the other teams, who are in financial trouble one way or another. I can see them argue it creates an unfair advantage.

          But I do agree with you. This situation needs to be resolved, because it’s ridiculous that Pirelli has to run around in a 2010 spec car.

          I kind of feel sorry for Pirelli. Drivers and teams complain about them, the FIA acts like they’d rather be rid of them, Ecclestone sides with whomever suits him best and on top of that they can’t do their job properly because the teams cannot agree on pretty much anything. And if they air their frustrations people complain about that as well.

      3. A test with a 2 year old car running tyres meant for next year. What does the fact there’s a race at that track this year in 2-3 weeks matter @mike-dee? Fact was, that McLaren was able to oblige because they had that car in the states for demo purposes, and therefore were able to provide it.

        Sorry, but I think its just stupid people being scared of “someone gaining an advantage” when its a clear necessity to go out and test. To me, this move (FIA forbidding the test bcause of fear for negative talk) shows that Pirelli and MErcedes (and Ferrari before that) were right not to tell people up front when and where they were going to test, because otherwise they wouldn’t have been testing at all.

      4. Invite all teams to do a test at Austin on the Monday after the race.

        Rubbered in track.
        Same marshalls paid one extra day.
        No extra freight costs for smaller teams.
        All use 2013 cars, as close as we are going to get to 2014.
        Race has already run so advantage nullified.

        There we go Hembery. Now stop moaning. Of course the other teams are not happy with just using McLaren, what do you expect after the Merc test?

        5 more years of this :(

        1. @john-h Pirelli will need to spend more money for producing 21 extra set of tyres for all the teams rather than just one car.They will need more engineers on track to monitor the tyres and collect data on all 22 sets.
          Its just easier to test and baseline your product on one car. Apparently,Opposition to Mclaren only came from Force India since these 2 are competing for 5th place in constructor.

    2. Any thoughts on Fernando giving the Hulk praise, in comparison to the comments about Lewis’ comments yesterday?

      1. Very different to Lewis’ who pretty much said he was better than hulk and deserved to be in front of him due to some false sense of entitlement. Whereas Alonso said hulk deserved to be in front because he did a better job; which he did.
        I reckon hulk would do far better in the other merc than the other nico and would quite be ahead of Lewis. But then we’d hear even more complaints wouldn’t we?

        1. @yoshif8tures He’d probably give Vettel a serious run for his money if he was in the bull as well, his junior formula achievements even outshone Vettel.

          1. @hyakuyagami by that logic, Di Resta must have a solid chance of beating Vettel in the same machinery ;)

            Although junior records are of course good indicators of their potential, I don’t think they’re very good for defining how good a driver is in F1 at this exact moment. The best way is to base their performance on average of the car in that season and against their teammate, but even that’s hugely subjective.

            It’s very difficult to quantify, but I think Vettel has just perfected his style so much so that anybody would have a tough time beating him at Red Bull for the moment.

            1. @vettel1 I don’t disagree I was taking into consideration that he is good in F1 at the moment AS WELL AS having a very solid junior formula record.

              Though, the switch to Mercedes by Hamilton is showing that you don’t just jump into a car and fly to the top of the timing screen just beacuse the car is good and the driver is also of a known quantity, you have to get your mind around the car and its setup first and this shows at Red Bull.

              Ricciardo will probably have a task and a half on his hands acclimatizing to the team. Vettel probably already has a good idea what next year’s car will behave like.

              I also believe that the car is built around Vettel, because of his hard work and feedback for sure. Mark isn’t considered as good a driver and isn’t the focus of the team and you can see he just can’t get the same results out of the car that Sebastian does even when luck is on his side and he is driving at his best.
              Is Hulk better than Lewis, Vettel, Alonso, Kimi? Right now, probably not partnered alongside them for a year or two and I’d expect to see him come out on top every now and then

        2. Yawn.

          Hulk has one good race were he had massive straight line speed advantage and all of a sudden he’d be better than a driver who beat the sports most highly rated driver in his rookie season? Haha. Keep dreaming kid

        3. Chris (@tophercheese21)
          8th October 2013, 1:24

          I’m sorry but I cannot disagree with you more.
          Clearly you love Alonso, and that’s fine, but Hamilton never said he was better than Hulkenberg.
          All he said was that the Sauber had amazing traction. Which it did. I fail to see how that is some sort of personal attack on Hulkenberg’s driving ability. He was just stating a fact that was plainly obvious. Not to mention the Sauber was running much lower downforce and longer gears.

          Secondly, people underrate Rosberg far too much. He is a very very high quality driver. He’s given Lewis a good run for his money this year and beaten him several times.

          I do not think that if Hulkenberg replaced Rosberg that he would beat Lewis. Lewis is supremely talented, and incredibly tough to beat. Just ask Alonso.

          1. If you’re talking about me, then I don’t love Alonso, he’s simply a great driver.
            Lewis wears his heart on his sleeve which so often works against him, making him seen like a whiner.
            But just maybe the rookie Lewis or the ’08 Lewis is better than the Lewis minus Nicole?

            1. It’s mostly about the car and the team. 2009-2011 his car was not fast enough. 2012 the team screwed him operationally and reliability-wise, and 2013 his car is too slow again (this time in the race/on its tyres). I’m mostly a Vettel fan, but I don’t think Lewis has really been in a position to compete for the title most of these years.

              It could be that he could have exerted stronger/better influence on the team and that would have made him competitive in some of those years, but I’m skeptical. His worst year was 2011, and the title was not on the table at all then performance-wise.

              Mainly, I think Whitmarsh is not a strong team boss and that accounts for a lot of McLaren’s operational problems since 09.

            2. Moreover, his struggles this year against Rosberg are the standard one every driver has when entering a new team; it always takes a year before the true results come. (I submit that in 2007 this effect was smaller for him because he had grown up with the team.)

            3. elliot the mclaren in 10 was fast. He should of won that title. double DNF in the title run in lost him that. And crashes in Germany and Japan practice when vital updates had just been put on the car didnt help.

            4. To everyone saying he didn’t have a fast enough car etc. etc. and those saying he SHOULD have won the title in 2010 – GIVE ME A BREAK!

              He hasn’t even come runner up in the last 4 years! Never mind runner up, he hasn’t even come third!!!

              Need I remind you that he very own team mate driving the very same car at least came 2nd in 2011! And that’s a driver most of you Hamilton fans call a ‘slow midfield driver’. And before you all start with the tosh about Button only beating him because he had a bad year think about this – Hamilton wasn’t the only one Button beat that year was it? If I remember correctly he also beat Webber, Alonso and all the rest of the field.

              Never mind the dribble about the car not being good enough, how bout you look at the real reason he hasn’t got any more titles – HE’S NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

              How many more years does he have to come 4th or 5th in the WDC before we stop hearing about how ‘great’ Hamilton is and that he’s ‘the fastest in F1’?????

              Oh, that’s right, I forgot – I’m talking to Hamilton fans who have absolutely no interest in ACTUAL results and facts!

          2. +1 @tophercheese21

            I get BBC comments here and DC was praising Sauber’s good traction to fend off attacks down the DRS zone and he never meant to diminish Hulk, I don’t get why Lewis can’t say the same.

        4. David not Coulthard (@)
          8th October 2013, 3:34

          I reckon hulk would do far better in the other merc than the other nico

          I’d say the son of the 1st Finnish champion is actually as good as Lewis, albeit not exactly (probaqbly a bit worse, but just a bit). The problem is, apart from Silverstone, I think he’s a bit of a Tyrrell-driving Webber in terms of luck (races like Melbourne comes to mind).

          1. Minardi-driving Webber maybe?

      2. Alonso is a bad person and everything he says is political so he actually tried to make Hamilton look silly with these comments and tell Domenicali that he made the wrong call not to hire Hülkenberg – at least thats what I expect to hear from some people.

        Having that out of the way: It is very nice Hülkenberg gets the recognition for his work that he deserves, after a spectacularly good junior career but almost equally unspectacular rookie season at Williams (except last quail) he has been much improved last year and had great drives this year aswell, its just that people don’t tend to notice when it happens further down the grid. As great as his drive was, I wouldn’t go as far as praising him as the greatest of all time yet as the circumstances helped (neither the Ferrari nor the Merc would have gotten past in a straight line even if we had run 50 more laps and Nico did very well not to get caught out by surprise somewhere else except once when he didn’t accelerate well out of the last corner). It is sad he didn’t get the Ferrari drive but I’m fine with my two favourite drivers there next season anyway (I still remember standing there in the mud at Spa for Kimis last Ferrari win). Maybe they will amend that at a different point in time, for example after two seasons of him spending races near the podium consistently at Lotus (or even better at Sauber, I wish them some success too).

      3. Alonso is clever enough to need his comments to be reviewed as though peeling back the layers of an onion. Keeping in mind his words may have multiple targets, such as, Ferrari management, Lewis, Pirelli, making himself look better…

        As much as I try to give him the benefit of the doubt as a human being (no problem with him as a driver), it is difficult. Maybe I’m totally wrong and he was just being a nice guy praising Hulkenberg?

        1. @bullmello youre looking to deep into what he said, he simply said hulkenberg drove brilliantly..which he did

          1. @scuderia29 – I’d like to believe that, but I wonder. Alonso also said:

            “When we changed to the 2012 tyres, there were some teams that had a penalty,” he said.

            “We can see very clearly that Force India now are fighting to take some points.

            “Sauber was out of Q1 before and now it has both cars in Q3, so this is a benefit.”

            So, on the one hand he compliments Hulkenberg and I will take that at face value. But, on the other hand he attributes Sauber’s recent performance and Ferrari’s woes to Pirelli.

            I believe Alonso is much more calculating in what he says than Hamilton is. Lewis gushes emotionally and sometimes backtracks later. Fernando usually thinks about what he says and there is a point to it.

      4. I’m more thinking if Alonso and Hulkenberg are not going to McLaren or at least one of them.

      5. Speaking of Lewis have anyone seem his last 5 tweets:

        Good morning all. Read some of the stories/reports of my comments on Seb. Feel the need to clarify my thoughts. Seb is great champion!!
        Not only that, he is a great human being who is funny and humble. Deserves all the success he is having!
        I admire his dedication & ability to consistently perform without mistakes. This is the mark of a true champion.
        Regardless of what you & I may think about his car, at the end of the day he’s doing the perfect job.
        I’m just grateful I get to drive in an era with so many great drivers like him. God Bless & have an amazing day!

        1. @celeste – I read Hamilton’s comments to mean “Alonso and I should be up the front racing with Vettel”, instead of “Alonso and I should be up the front instead of Vettel”.

          1. @prisoner-monkeys I wouldn´t be surprise if he as talking about this article

            Some F1 drivers accuse Sebastian Vettel of cheating
            Mercedes driver Lewis Hamilton said Thursday that Red Bull was using something which its rivals could only guess at.

            “Perhaps they have a lot more in the bag that we get to see,” Hamilton said. “He is on the power full throttle at least 20 meters before everyone else, which is a huge advantage.”

            I don´t care if Hamilton thinks that the Vettel Era is boring, baecause I think that is the jealousy talking.

            And as what he mean, frankly I think is very straight in the meaning of what he wanted to said, both yesterday with the “Alonso and I shouldn’t be fighting for fifth and sixth”, today with “the boring Vettel era” with the “TC comment”

            1. @celeste – I read the article. Although the title says drivers accuse Red Bull of cheating, Hamilton never says it. He simply makes an observation about the behaviour of Vettel’s car, and describes it as something the other teams can only speculate about.

              When Mercedes first developed the double-DRS, their rivals could only guess at how it worked. That did not automatically make it illegal – just that its mechanism was unknown.

              So I don’t see what the difference here is. Mercedes and Hamilton don’t know what Red Bull are doing, so how does that make Hamilton’s comments an accusation of cheating?

              This is nothing more than an attention-grabbing headline with only innuendo and creative journalusm to back it up. “Rivals accuse Red Bull of cheating” gets more readers than “Rivals unable to figure out secret of Red Bull’s success”. And the first casualty of this kind of sensationalism is the intended meaning of the drivers’ words. The way people go looking for a reason to criticise Hamilton just makes it even easier – after all, the first rule of mass media is to give the people what they want.

            2. @prisoner-monkeys
              First is the complete quote from Hamilton that some people believe it means that he was telling RBR was using TC

              Mercedes driver Lewis Hamilton heightened the speculation when he said on Thursday, ahead of the Korean Grand Prix: “If you look at the onboard [camera], he is on the power full throttle at least 20 metres before anyone else, which is a huge advantage.

              The last time I was able to put the pedal down that quick was back in 2007 or 2008, when we had traction control.”

        2. Very cool of him to say that, excellent gesture to post that, or to allow whoever manages his twitter account to post that.

          1. Or to follow his PR manager advice. Could be any of both.

        3. Thanks for posting. It’s nice to know the ‘good’ Hamilton is still there. Such a complex character.

      6. Well, I think its about what both are trying to tell their own team. Alonso can this way show on the one hand, that maybe they made a mistake in signing Kimi instead of going with Hulk, and at the same time take a dig at his team because while the engine in the Sauber is the same, the team was clearly doing a better job with their aerodynamics currently.

        Hamiltion – he also needed to tell his team that they should man up, work on the car and work on better strategies.

    3. The is a bit cynical…but cant they just give Vettel the title and tell him to stay home so we get to watch some proper racing at the front? It would have been awesome if the fight for 4th 5h and 6th at Yeongnam was for 1st 2nd and 3rd…

      Anyways..whats the bet that the Vettel-RBR hegemony will continue next year and beyond? Gary Anderson thinks the likes of Ferrari and Merc are too far behind because they dont really know what is wrong with their cars this year. So barring a miracle, we can expect finger boy to continue as is

      1. @jaymenon10

        The is a bit cynical…but cant they just give Vettel the title and tell him to stay home so we get to watch some proper racing at the front? It would have been awesome if the fight for 4th 5h and 6th at Yeongnam was for 1st 2nd and 3rd…

        Is it really THAT important to you? Because if that were the point of F1, just fighting for 1st, we wouldn’t have 11 teams and 22 drivers.

        The fight for the 1st becomes that important when fighting for the title, which you already gave Vettel, so what you said is not really cynical but illogical.

      2. W (@yesyesyesandyesagain)
        8th October 2013, 0:45

        Adrian Newey was not in Korea this weekend and I would not be surprised if he doesn’t show up to any races the rest of the year, he will be totally focused on next year. Winning so early gives Red Bull plenty of time to devote resources to next year’s car, and increases the likelihood that they will be competitive.

      3. How many times have I heard this? It wouldn’t matter if we started next season now or later. Vettel is that good and it’d be more of the same. He will Be champion next year as well. Just look at the comparison to Webber.

        1. If thats so sure then whats the point in even continuing to have Formula 1? After 2004, one of the most dominated seasons ever, the 5th WDC and 6th WCC in a row, things changed. I wouldn’t mind if once again it were Alonso ending a streak. A man can dream, right?

          Concerning COTD, Vettels achievements are noteworthy I agree, I just want to throw in what I always mention when these statistics come up: lets look at Schumacher after 115 races. After Italy 1998 (I think, also depends on how you count France 1996) he had 33 wins (1 less), 64 podiums (7more), 18poles (ok this is bad), 26flaps (5more) all that while he retired from the race 31times (Vettel 18), the cars he drove won the WCC only once and looking at the all time stats one should consider Schumachers most dominant years came later.

          1. The poles statistic is not “bad,” it simply underlines the fact that for most if not all of that time, someone else had a quicker car. If anything that makes Schumacher’s other achievements even more impressive.

        2. Compare it with Webber? last year he outqualified Vettel and was ahead in the points in the first half of the season when the exhaust where still very weak compared to 2011.

          For next year a much more conventional driving style will be required and Ricciardo is no slouch, I expect him to beat Vettel regularly on qualifying which will means he will not be able to drive away in the first 3 laps like he does now.

      4. There’s no guarantee the Renault will be on par with the Mercedes! or even the Ferrari for that matter, but assuming all engines are equal on power and fuel consumption I’d expect RBR to have the best aerodynamics again next year. There’s no reason they wouldn’t. An interesting comment from Newey’s recent BBC interview caught my attention though where he mentioned how Vettel and Webber complement one another as development drivers, Vettel being more sensitive to tire and suspension/setup changes and Webber being more sensitive to aerodynamic changes. If that’s the case I wonder how much Webber’s absence will be felt in developing the aerodynamics of the car next year.

        1. Typing on a tablet is great when you get errant exclamation marks. When’s that edit button coming @keithcollantine?

            1. Thanks @keithcollantine. I’ve read the thread before, I was mainly joking. I suppose I should’ve used a [joke]joke tag[/joke]. ;-)

        2. @us_peter, I noticed that also, in fact I would have expected the opposite given their age and experience differences, imagine the irony if it had been Webbers input that made the car so suited to Vettel.

        3. RBR does have an awful lot of reliability problems though, especially with KERS, so maybe they’ll struggle with ERS. A lot of radio messages also make it sound like they cant even recharge KERS properly. Next year EBD will be gone too (though that’s not the source of all their speed).

        4. Also, with the exhaust blowing completely out for next season, will Red Bull and Vettel be so strong?

        5. Shreyas Mohanty (@)
          8th October 2013, 11:00

          There’s no guarantee the
          Renault will be on par
          with the Mercedes! or
          even the Ferrari for that

          I simply don’t understand how people conclude that the Merc engine is faster than the Renault or the Ferrari. Where did you find this information, may I ask @us_peter ?

          1. @shreyasf1fan I have no information, nor did I say any engine would be superior to any other. My point was simply that we have no idea what sort of parity there will be between the three different engines. My hope is that they’re all similar so that all teams get an equal shot, but I do think it’s inevitable that some will suffer either with power, fuel consumption, or reliability. I wonder as we’ll where the rumor in the media has come from that Mercedes will have the engine to beat. There’s really no way anyone could know other than possibly Pirelli? Teams would’ve had to submit them some sort of estimates of power, torque, etc. for next year so they have some idea of tire design. So maybe that’s where the rumors started.

    4. It’s a shame that Jarier never won a race in the end.

    5. Will anyone be cheering if Vettel wins more records and titles than Schumi? Will the finally recognise greatness? Or will be after he’s long since retired after winning 10 titles and over 100 wins…

      1. If Vettel does manage that , I will be cheering as I like Vettel better than Schumi ;-)

      2. Given that I definitely gave up cheering for Schumi 3-4 years before he set those records, don’t be surprised not to hear a big cheer for when Vettel betters them.

        To me the sport is about watching great racing by exceptional drivers in very special cars. Its impressive to see a great drive, and its intriguing to see a team/driver able to build a way of working that enables them to do it for a long time. But records is not my thing, and I find myself looking for someone to challenge that dominance.
        I found it boring in cycling when Indurain won every race (and the same for Armstrong later). I find it boring when Sven Kramer wins all speed skating tournaments etc.

    6. W (@yesyesyesandyesagain)
      8th October 2013, 0:58

      If Brawn leaves Mercedes how much technical information will he take with him and how much of a benefit will that be for the team he goes to?

      If his leaving the team was planned, as some people believe, Mercedes would likely keep him out of the loop on the 2014 car. But, how do you realistically keep a team principal completely out of the development loop?

      1. I can’t see Brawn leaving, though. He’s made it clear that he wants to stay. So I find Lauda’s comments to be strange, since they imply Brawn is possibly on the way out.

        The only thing I can think of is McLaren sniffing around. Martin Whitmarsh says the team has made some technical signings that will be “headline-grabbing”. If Brawn is still talking to Mercedes, then he hasn’t jumped ship yet – but I could see McLaren picking up a string of talented younger designers and placing them under Brawn’s direction. Especially if they are trying to lure Alonso back.

    7. “…a long way to go in this race yet, and anything could happen and very often does in grand prix racing…” — Murray Walker (4:50)
      Ah, the good old days of unreliability!

    8. Well Mr. Hembery the answer is obvious, make the tyres bullet-proof and capable of racing hard for 300 km with only a little drop of in performance, let the drivers and the cars make the difference in performance.

      1. If the tires would be able to do that they’d be such a hard compound that the racing would be crap because nobody would have any grip.

        1. Maybe that would make the races more interesting @fisha695 ;-)

          1. @3dom @fisha695 @hohum
            I vote for some Pirelli Flinstone-style tires. Who’s with me?

        2. @fisha99, yes crap racing just like we get on a damp track.

      2. @HoHum the fia specifically asked pirelli NOT to make a tyre capable of that

        1. Then the FIA gave them no support, no testing opportunities and no timely contractual guarantees.

    9. My two cents. Pirelli needs testing for next year. Alonso’s comments are definately political. He is attacking Hamilton and ferraris management, because I don’t think is too happy Kimi is his teammate next year.

      I’m sorry I can’t post a link, but I did read an article talking about how RBR has a completely legal form of TC that uses the kers system to control wheel spin. This would explain why they are always having so much trouble with their kers, and how they have dominated so much as of late. With ERS looking like such an important system next year, I can’t imagine RBR messing around with reliability by playing with this TC kers based system. Combined with RBR no longer being able to extract performance from the exhaust starting next year, I expect a much more even playing field. But, with their budget and Newey, I expect them to find something and continue fighting at the sharp end of the grid.

      1. hehehe… nice one

      2. a …….. translation ;-) ?

        1. I think it is
          “I do not usually get on the podium but when I do, Kimi is second and Vettel is first”

        2. @hamilfan “I’m not on the podium often but when I am, Kimi is 2nd, Vettel 1st”

          1. Thank you @mantresx , that was funny especially his expression there .

      3. Does that make Grosjean “the worlds most interesting man” XX.

    10. Shouldn’t Pirelli just build a tyre and teams adopt to it instead of guessing the needs of the next year’s cars, which it’s just impossible to do?

      Back in the day, when there were plenty of tyre manufacturers, each team worked alongside the tyre manufacturer to develop specific tyres to their car. The P34 comes to mind. And the Ferrari-Bridgestone years.

      But with the rubber monopoly we have now, shouldn’t it be the other way? Because doing it like they are suggesting, will always end with one car adapting randomly to the tyres better than the others, and the others will always complain.

      Design a tyre that means the theorical specifications of torque, speed, G-forces and stuff, and let the teams work round that… they have all summer to get used to them. Wasn’t it like that in the mid-90’s with the Goodyears?

      1. @fer-no65 – That’s what they’ve always done. The difference is that they’ve made the tyres a moving target, altering and updating the compounds every few races to keep the teams on their toes.

        1. @prisoner-monkeys

          wat? since when? Outside of this year, Pirelli never did this.

      2. David not Coulthard (@)
        8th October 2013, 6:25

        The P34 was, in fact, a victim of a lack of tyre development

        Which is why the next car Tyrrell rolled out had as many wheels as a Cooper T51.

        1. @davidnotcoulthard after a while. Initially, it was a sucess because Goodyear (I think it was) developed the smaller tyre for its specific use rather than just build a scaled down version of the standard tyre.

          1. David not Coulthard (@)
            9th October 2013, 6:09

            @fer-no65 Let’s just call it both a success and a failure at being supported by the tyre manufacturer :)

      3. They should. But what if Pirelli do not know whether a tyre they build will last the distance, last a season or give way after 10 laps because they have so limited data to go on?

        1. @bascb

          But what if Pirelli do not know whether a tyre they build will last the distance, last a season or give way after 10 laps because they have so limited data to go on?

          Let them design a generic tyre that works well for a reasonable amount of laps . This they have to calculate . They should have the resources to calculate . Testing the 2010 lotus will only benefit Lotus . That way , even teams take big risks in predicting tyre performance before the start of the season . If Pirelli has no other option but to test , they will have to schedule testing events where all teams can participate with current cars and Pirelli will have to analyse all the data before constructing .

          1. Let them design a generic tyre that works well for a reasonable amount of laps . This they have to calculate

            @hamilfan – what basis should they take for their estimates, when the way the powertrain is going to behave will be very different last year (only the engine manufacturers and possible the teams have some reasonable estimates), the aerodynamics will be quite different too (no blowing bcause of Turbo and single exhaust outlet) ect.
            Its completely uncomparable with road cars where there’s a couple of million running on each type of tyre Pirelli has supplied.
            Testing the 2010 Lotus is not going to help Lotus, and its only marginally helping Pirelli, but there are almost 0 opportunities to test more recent cars with better downforce.
            If you say they should just go out and make a test where everyone comes, you are completely out of reality. Just look at it. Pirelli asked ALL teams to supply a car, only McLaren was positive, and mostly because it had planned to have the car close to the Austin track anyway for a demo run. And look back to the “tyre testing” in Silverstone during the YDT. As soon as it turned out they really would be just testing tyres, most top drivers did not show up, and instead the teams went on with running drivers where they were allowed to test their own parts. And that was testing just 1 compound that was going to be raced shortly after.
            Now imagine Pirelli plans on testing 8 different compounds, 2-3 slightly different constructions. Your proposal would mean building at least some 90 sets of tyres and bringing them to a track. And then getting all teams to really show up and do 2-3 days of running without being allowed to test new bits on the car or change the setup. It wouldn’t even get off the grown unless FOM made it mandatory to run.
            Reality is, tyre testing is not something that brings much to the teams and that is why they are not all that interested in doing it.

    11. Pirelli are finding this tyre contract a poisoned chalice.

      The fia’s stupidity continues.

      1. Why are you blaming the FIA? Blame the teams – they’re the ones who agreed to Pirelli’s proposals in the first place. They’re the ones who refuse to make their cars available for resting and development, and they’re the ones who complain about the tyres the moment they run into trouble.

        1. @prisoner-monkeys, I could have sworn that it was the FIA that prosecuted Mercedes for making their car and drivers available for a test.

    12. The FIA should just go and slam their heads in the wall !!!!

      Enough of this nonsense . Let Pirelli bring out strong 2014 tyres (durable) and supply it for Friday testing to each team . Then , this will be used by the teams to develop their cars with the data in mind. As @fer-no65 says , “Pirelli don’t you stick you nose into too many details” , We don’t want you to design degrading tyres any more . Make it simple .

      I am surprised that people don’t protest against the FIA to this . If this nonsense of one team benefiting or changes being made mid season or random explosions continues , then F1 will only falter in it’s quest for increasing viewership.

    13. I love that picture of De la Rosa testing wet tyres in the night.

    14. Please bring back Michelin. They have threadless wet weather tyres. It’s awesome!

      1. It’s not a wet tire, it’s an intermediate tire that’s good for basically damp conditions not actual full-wet conditions.

    15. Seb stats are incredible. If he keeps getting top cars he may well get 4 more WDC. However, I think he will struggle in 2014 because FIA has designed the rules against his “driving style” or Newey/Vettel philosophy if you prefer.

      1. Yes, it sounds a bit like 2005, when you could say the new tyre rules were designed to stop Schumacher. Red Bull may have to develop their way to the front throughout the season, as they did against Brawn in 2009.

    16. Michael Brown (@)
      8th October 2013, 12:00

      Pirelli needs this test so they don’t ruin the tires like they did this year.

    17. I think Korea doesn’t work as a venue and will never become a staple of the calendar like Suzuka because it simply doesn’t have the audience. The racetrack should’ve been much nearer Seoul, which of course is a growing technical power to rival the likes of Tokyo – a great compliment for F1. Rather unlike a shipyard.

      Compare that to Austin: I think it’s a fantastic venue, in close proximity to a pretty major city and has the added benefit of being near Mexico and pretty much slap-bang in the middle of the US, so it’s not too arduous for people from each coast to hop over. It’s a great racetrack, too, whereas Korea just seems a bit like Tilke has tried to use a formula to calculate the ideal design – the perfect racetrack – and failed. Why has he failed? Because racetracks should follow the natural topography, flow through the natural crests and bends in the landscape. That’s what makes Spa a great racetrack, or the Nordschliefe arguably the greatest of them all.

      1. Don’t fight the land, essentially. It’s your ally!

      2. It’s a great racetrack, too, whereas Korea just seems a bit like Tilke has tried to use a formula to calculate the ideal design – the perfect racetrack – and failed.

        How has he failed with Korea?

        Its a track all the drivers like & its produced good races every year. The 2nd sector is very fast & flowing & the final sector is very technical.

        Its similar to Austin in that regard, The 1st sector at Austin is fast/flowing, The 2nd has the long straghts & the 3rd is a slower, more technical section.
        Also pretty sure that Austin doesn’t exactly follow the land as I believe it was a totally flat bit of land when Tilke was given it, All the crest’s, All the undulation was all man made.
        When the initial shots of the land it was to be built came out I recall everyone whining about how it was going to be flat & featureless.

        1. Austin isn’t the perfect track, I grant you that much. But I’d sure as hell say it were better than Korea: Korea isn’t a bad track, but it’s got a pretty unimaginative layout to say the least. The land he was given for sure was no help, but honestly I think he’d have done better just drawing some squiggles with a crayon in the initial design phase.

      3. Michael Brown (@)
        8th October 2013, 18:28

        The COTD a few days ago revealed that the media doesn’t inform the public of the GP nor do the locals who live near the track know.

        Compare that to COTA’s first year. The demands were so high that additional grandstands had to be build, the location works for American and Mexican fans, and a festival was held in Austin in celebrating for the Grand Prix.

        I like the Korean track but it’s going to be gone soon with its attendance figures. Same happened to Istanbul Park.

    18. Pirelli often complain about not been able to test new tyres, However lets not forget that they are allowed to test new tyres on Friday’s at F1 weekends & they have hardly ever decided to take advantage of that.

      The Mercedes test at Barcelona this year clearly benefited them as there tyre wear has been improved since then as has there overall performance so clearly picking 1 team to run a tyre test every so often is not the best or fairest solution.
      However Pirelli themselfs have said in the past that they don’t want group tyre test’s because they could not afford to bring enough sets of the test tyres to supply all the teams.

      The other issue of course is that most of the teams on the grid can’t afford testing, Most are unhappy about the limited testing that we will see in 2014.
      If you opened up testing you would likely only have 4 teams that could actually afford to test so do you then allow those 4 teams to do all the tyre testing, Gaining an advantage over the teams with smaller budgets (Which includes Lotus lets not forget) which could also make it harder for them to compete.

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