Carlos Sainz Jnr, Toro Rosso, Sochi Autodrom, 2015

Drivers concerned about barriers after Sainz crash

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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In the round-up: Several drivers have expressed concern at how Carlos Sainz Jnr’s car ‘submarined’ beneath the barrier during his crash yesterday.

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How well did the barrier perform in Carlos Sainz Jnr’s crash?

Have the energy-absorbing barriers done their job of protecting Sainz from the energy of a very high speed front impact, or has the way that the car ‘submarined’ under the barriers, trapping Sainz inside the car with the barriers covering his helmet caused more danger to him than it has prevented? If so, we really need to urgently question whether these types of barriers are fit for purpose.
@Willwood

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On this day in F1

‘Fon’ was born on this day in 1928. His full name was Alfonso Antonio Vicente Eduardo Angel Blas Francisco de Borja Cabeza de Vaca y Leighton, Marquis of Portago, which explains why his competitors in the early years of the world championship called him ‘Fon’.

He was the first Spanish driver to stand on the podium at an F1 race, 47 years before Fernando Alonso, when he shared second place in the British Grand Prix with Peter Collins in 1956. However Alfonso de Portago died the following year when he crashed during the Mille Miglia. His co-driver and nine children were also killed.

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Keith Collantine
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  • 29 comments on “Drivers concerned about barriers after Sainz crash”

    1. So next year we will have a high nose, no that might go over the top of another car, so stick to a low nose and submarine ? No the obvious answer is a high and a low nose, we could then have “the biplane nose” Seb V can be “The Red Baron”.

      1. Ah, but the Red Baron was best known for flying a TRIplane, so now logically we need a three-tiered nose. ;)

        1. Two wings in the front, one in the back :)

      2. Or split the difference :)

      3. ColdFly F1 (@)
        11th October 2015, 10:52

        Why not simply add some solid bumpers?
        At the same time we can close the cockpit, add some doors for driver extraction, and of course cover the wheels!

    2. So if we’ve decided it doesn’t really make any difference what height the nose is since each option creates it’s own issues, why not just open up the rules?

      1. I guess because with safety issues, 1 strong decision is better than an open to interpretation rule.

        If the Tec-Pros work fine, low noses shouldn’t be a problem.

        Every single bit of engineering has it pros and cons, but open up the rules to the teams to decide on safety it’s ridiculous IMO

    3. Ben Hunt. Sochi is a beautiful place, many journos have made an 180º on their comments regarding sochi. If you are going to hate, I’ll switch places with you.

      1. @peartree It’s only 5 miles to Abkhazia from the track, I wonder if you can see it from there..

        1. @fastiesty Sochi is 90 miles long, the longest european city!

    4. Lots of criticism of the barriers but at the end of the day, they’ve save Sainz’s life even if the front row flew up, which is maybe an installation issue (not sure).

      He might even race after a head on crash at over 100mph. You could even say it was worse than the Burti incident the angle he went in there.

      1. @john-h You know what I think you’re right, at the end of the day Sainz is fine with no injuries. By the way it seems no one has realised that the front of the car was actually lower than normal because the wheels and nose got damaged when he first hit the wall, so he was literally scraping the floor with the front wing.

        I reckon only a ridiculously high nose like the 2011 ones wouldn’t have given the same result in this particular case.

        1. @mantresx, and the problem with going to the nose height of the 2011 cars is that, if one car were to strike another side on, the nose tip would pass over the cockpit side protection measures and potentially strike the driver in the cockpit on the head (which was the reason why the FIA legislated against that type of nosecone).

      2. I do agree that they should have a look at installation to make sure they don’t get pushed up like that, but the barriers did indeed work well to make sure the driver was not injured in the impact @mantresx, @john-h

    5. So Gary Anderson says he always knew this would happen? Does he have documented evidence of raising this concern or is he just spouting 20/20 hindsight?

      Every car design has its safety problems because barrelling round at 200mph is dangerous.

      I think the car going under the barrier was more to do with losing the wheel which put the wing down to the ground.

      I’m no engineer, but wouldn’t giving the barrier a lip stop that? Make it L shaped so the car has its weight on the barrier before it hits so it can’t be raised?

      1. yeah, he has been very critical of lower noses (like Newey has been) from the onset @philipgb

        1. I know he and others have about the cars flipping other cars like Maldonado did last year, but he’s saying it was obvious this could happen with the barrier. I don’t recall seeing any articles or quotes on barrier safety because of low noses.

          I think fixing the barriers to have an L lip preventing to wing getting under them is the solution to this problem. Low vs high nose risk is a different debate.

          1. the cars flipping other cars like Maldonado did last year

            The nose had nothing to do with that because the nose never made contact with Guttierez’s car, It was purely wheel to wheel contact.

    6. I wonder what would have happened to Sainz’ car if it had hit a deep tyre barrier with conveyor belt? Would it have been like Mark Webber in Valencia 2010 where he hit the tyres head first (ok he had a much higher nose then) and was bounced back out, or would Sainz still have submarined under like Burti in Spa 2001? I’m pretty sure there was no belt on the tyres with Burti though so maybe that is key.

    7. Glad sainz is ok and only suffered a massive swollen hand!

    8. As for the weekend format, where did this suddenly come from? Why does F1 keep wanting to change things just to make some changes while constantly refraining from acting on what really needs solving (distribution of money and cost).

      No, I do not think it would be fun if every weekend was arranged different. And no, it would not help to keep fans tune in when they won’t know what to expect when. Shortening the weekend will just give the fans less bang for their Buck.

      1. You’re passing judgement on decisions that haven’t been made yet

        1. Isn’t that just how you assess the options?

        2. Not really @raceprouk.

          Whatever change in weekend format is clearly not going to solve the issues I mentioned at all. Throwing in new gimmicks or even going for different gimmicks or whatever does nothing to make the racing more exciting either. And nothing in the proposals for 2017 to make the cars faster is doing anything to help get cost down, so I think that its very safe to say non of the proposals solves the issues F1 is really facing currently.

    9. Got to love the Telegrah:

      Kvyat, a much more jovial, engaging figure than your stereotypical Russian, seems impressed I managed to soldier my way through Dostoyevsky’s Crime and Punishment

      Not even ashamed, this is like stereotype inception, a stereotype within stereotyping!

      1. *cue the Inception horn*

      2. @tyresmoke “All the same, these right wing newspapers with their stereotypes. So stereotypical!”

        1. Stereo-ception! Hehe, I guess I was painting the Telegraph with a ‘typical’ brush.

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