[raceweekendpromotion]Formula 1 has released the forward-facing camera footage from Max Verstappen’s car showing the controversial lap 48 incident between him and Lewis Hamilton during last weekend’s Sao Paulo Grand Prix.
The video showing Verstappen’s cockpit view of the incident was not broadcast at the time because a rearward-facing shot was being transmitted from the Red Bull. FIA F1 race director Michael Masi confirmed the stewards did not have access to the video when they decided not to investigate the incident between the pair.
The footage reveals Verstappen’s perspective of the incident. After he moved to cover the inside line for the corner, Hamilton drew alongside and past him as they approached the braking zone. Verstappen is still flat out on the throttle as the Mercedes pulls almost a full car length ahead of him to his right.
Verstappen then draws back alongside Hamilton as the pair begin to slow for the corner. He applies less than 45 degrees of steering angle as he runs wide of the apex, then increases the angle before heading off the track, with Hamilton on his outside joining him in running wide.
“We both of course, tried to be ahead into the corner, and so I braked a bit later to try and keep the position and the tyres were already a bit worn,” Verstappen explained afterwards.
“So I was really on the edge of grip, so that’s why I think I was already not fully on the apex. And it’s a safer way, of just running a bit wide there.”
Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff said Verstappen’s defending was “just over the line”, “should have been a five-second penalty at least” and criticised the stewards’ decision not to investigate the incident as “laughable”.
Max Verstappen 🆚 Lewis Hamilton: Wheel to wheel ⚔️
Watch the on-board footage from Verstappen's car as he defends from Hamilton at the #BrazilGP #SkyF1 | #F1 pic.twitter.com/LliaSNt2of
— Sky Sports F1 (@SkySportsF1) November 16, 2021
Verstappen vs. Hamilton in Brazil 🇧🇷
The onboard footage we've all been waiting for 👀 pic.twitter.com/0BSoo1TH6T
— ESPN F1 (@ESPNF1) November 16, 2021
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2021 Sao Paulo Grand Prix
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- Drivers tip Yas Marina changes to stop ‘boring races’
- MXGP 2020 – the official motocross game reviewed
- Track changes planned to improve racing in November’s Australian GP
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213 comments on “F1 releases missing video footage from Verstappen’s car of Hamilton incident”
16th November 2021, 12:44
Still looks as clear a penalty as it did on Sunday.
16th November 2021, 12:50
Yeah, any speculation as to his inputs are gone (apart from intent, but that’s not in the rules). So, remains that Verstappen didn’t really try to make the corner; could he have made it had he tried, or were the tyres old and was he going too fast to make the corner then?
It is effectively just as dangerous (if not more so), from a driving perspective, to lose control of the car sufficiently to crowd off your competitor as it would be that you intentionally let it happen; in both cases the fix would be to not break that late, and clearly, apply more steering while doing so. He could have avoided it. Needs an investigation, even more clearly than it was obvious in the race, should be done now by stewards with integrity.
16th November 2021, 13:10
Even more so now actually. Looking at onboards, drivers typically have about 90 degrees of steering lock going into that corner. Verstappen didnt have more than 45.
If he didnt have grip, he shouldve braked earlier. But the no grip argument is suspect because he had decent pace for the rest of the race, and managed to keep Lewis behind for another few laps. I was a Verstappen fan until this year, but he’s just pushing too far too often. He’s got a quick enough car to not need to resort to this.
16th November 2021, 13:19
Seeing that video I’d actually argue that his line, speed, turning input etc is almost irrelivent due to the fact he’s well behind Hamilton going into the corner. I origianlly thought they were along side eachother, but clearly Hamilton is ahead. Max therefore overtook and ran wide which is clearly against the rules.
That’s really not a good standard of driving. Max is so poor in wheel to wheel racing, it’s laughable that people think he’ll be a multiple champion.
16th November 2021, 14:54
He is well behind and in the camera facing back towards the helmet it is pretty clear he is keeping a close eye on exactly where Hamilton is as well.
Clearly he is driving intentionally in such a way that Hamilton can either back off or go off track. Both mean he cannot pass.
Pretty much doing exactly what Norris and Perez got penalties for doing in Austria. And exactly what they were explicitly warned not to do in Mexico.
If we want this to be OK, then they should clearly say so to the stewards. And stop penalising other drivers from doing so. But I fear that it will lead to accidents either in F1 or even more likely from junior series where all the drivers will start doing this kind of moves all the time.
16th November 2021, 14:55
BTW I haven’t seen the Sky video (region locked) but looked at the far more complete one posted by F1 itself including the outboard, inboard, and helmet facing ones from both cars.
16th November 2021, 18:30
Talking about HAM at Silverstone?!?!
16th November 2021, 22:07
Ben – reminder that Vettel is a 4x world champion.
Red Andy (@red-andy)
16th November 2021, 12:46
I don’t think this advances things one way or the other. He doesn’t open the steering (as the Sky commentators suggested he might have), but equally he’s a long way from full lock as well.
I doubt this will be sufficient evidence to persuade the stewards to reopen the investigation (or just “open” it, since they never investigated it in the first place), even in the event of a Mercedes protest, but who can predict the behaviour of the F1 race officials?
David BR (@david-br)
16th November 2021, 14:26
@red-andy It’s not just steering, it’s a combination of steering input, throttle and braking. The officials would presumably need data on all three to evaluate just how hard Verstappen tried to make the corner. But really it’s irrelevant. They, we, everyone, knows that Verstappen’s tyres weren’t so bad he just had to go 5 car-widths wide to be ‘safe’. He simply did what he could to block Hamilton from passing.
This kind of debate is pointless when it’s based on bad faith from the outset – in this case, the bad faith of Masi and his FIA staff who preferred to ‘let them race’ than apply racing regulations because it was less troublesome for them and more spicy for the racing on track. My respect for them is zero. What’s the point in debating whether the data is enough now or not? None at all.
17th November 2021, 8:23
I don’t even get why it would be ok if the tyres are cooked, it’s still misjudgment. On his own, he would potentially go wide, lose a bit of time, get a bit of dirt on his tyres and penalize himself, end of story (even if the rest of his race doesn’t suggest any particular struggle at any point).
Not giving a penalty (or even investigating) is effectively allowing the inside car to outbreak the outside one every single time while not on the racing line, that’s an interesting concept but they might as well state it then. I don’t mind if rules are changed for more racing or whatever but I like a fair game and we getting further from that with inconsistent policing.
Yes every case is different and there will always be room for interpretation (hence the composition of the steward committee) but still if the ground principles are unclear, that won’t help to police without guideline and open up the doors wide for conspiracy theories. Does it mean we will soon have Liberty, using Amazon analytics to decide the penalty depending on the show (Lewis is fast enough to go close again and keep the battle going, Max penalty is killing the GP).
It’s also going the opposite way to the track limit enforcement. Does it mean that coordinate driving by two teammates can use off track for better lines? Alonso raised the point on what is allowed or not and we might end up with more and more drivers using questionable driving to push the limits as they always do, until someone ram another.
16th November 2021, 16:08
But for clicks you don’t want things to advance, better drip feed the info and blow each tidbit out of proportions.
I think it was a penalty-worth offence on Sunday, and still think so.
I only review the comment section to see how far everybody is dug in now.
16th November 2021, 18:08
I am all about letting them race, these fights make it exciting, whatever you might think of it. LH fans will be against, MV fans will be pro. This is a WCship so things are heating up. Racing on the edge or over it, like LH at Silverstone. Just deal with it or watch something else
16th November 2021, 18:23
I agree with u.
16th November 2021, 18:54
I am all for letting them race.Indeed, Hamilton showed with all his overtakes – before he got to MV – that it is perfectly possible to have good exciting racing within the rules. BTW, I am all for that as well, a level playing field (or racing track) where everyone is required to follow the rules.
16th November 2021, 21:11
Exactly. If they’re going to “just let them race”, then they need to do so consistently. Not change the rules depending on who’s involved.
That said, I don’t agree with the anything goes. “Back off or I’ll crash you out” should not be an acceptable tactic.
17th November 2021, 0:14
Letting them race is such a cop out. Why not just stick them in stock cars and pound each other.
17th November 2021, 19:22
17th November 2021, 1:03
I’m all about letting them race too, so can all other drivers start defending this way? Can Bottas and Ham start pushing MV off the track in similar fashion? If FIA dare to step out and say yes, I will support this. Gloves off!
16th November 2021, 21:09
He also pushing throttle before the apex.
16th November 2021, 12:47
Initial steering appears Max was trying to squeeze Hamilton to the edge of the track but carries too much speed into the corner at the point he wanted to increase steering lock and runs wide as a result, seen drivers given penalties for similar so I wouldn’t be surprised if Mercedes asked for a review
16th November 2021, 14:46
mystic one (@mysticus)
16th November 2021, 18:07
this is the same move rosberg did in austria…
no steering lock until the edge of the corner, rosberg’s corner was tighter so it became blatantly clear.
here he literally is driving like he is on the straight turning a very high speed corner only makes full lock at the edge of the circuit!
his intention cant be denied with just i brake a bit later… he didnt use his brake like he was going into a corner morelikely lifted off only, what is more obvious is he has been checking of ham’s whereabouts from straight all the way to off corner! after he ensured “safe” approach of pushing ham off circuit then he made attempt to turn… what a disgusting piece of a driver and disgusting stewardship…. no investigation necessary… what a balony
16th November 2021, 12:48
I’m now more inclined to believe that Max did genuinely attempt to make the corner, albeit only after ensuring 100% the apex block was successful and that Lewis would be ran wide. So from an intent perspective he does better than Rosberg’s “IDGAF” block from Austria 2016
With that said the outcome was Max forcing Lewis off the road, leaving the track himself and maintaining an advantage in so doing, so I’m still not a fan of the no-call here.
16th November 2021, 12:52
This is about as fair a comment as we’ll see. I’m not convinced that Max steered as fully to the left as he should/could have but if this is fair game and done by all of the drivers when they’re defending a corner, then so be it. Could there be a good argument however that he failed to leave his opponent a car’s width, thus it should have been a penalty?
16th November 2021, 13:06
Lol of course he didn’t ‘attempt to take the corner’. What this shows is him still changing down at the apex, and steering for an apex many metres beyond the one on the actual track. It’s all in the timing, and slam dunk to any stewards who were really interested in applying the rules impartially.
16th November 2021, 19:12
I guess Max is the new Schumi. Drive hard and when that doesn’t work drive the completion off the road or run into them. Also, and more concerning was the FIAs lack of action on the weaving down the road by Max. Rules are clear, pick a side or the middle but not back and forth. If Max isn’t checked he is going to really hurt someone or himself. There is tough race-craft and then there is dirty race-craft and Max crossed the line several times in Brazil. His ego is writing checks the regulation should not let him cash!!
16th November 2021, 12:50
If your tires are worn you don’t brake later for the turn that you would with fresh tires, that’s an odd excuse.
16th November 2021, 15:51
It’s insane. Compare it with Hamiltons pole lap and Max starts braking in the same place, just before the 50m board.
So a car on the softest tyres and minimal fuel can break at the 50m board and Max thinks he can do that on 15 lap old hard tyres with much more fuel. And still people think he’s a good racer… Apparently he doesn’t even know how to turn a steering wheel either…
17th November 2021, 8:02
You know it happens almost at the end so the fuel load is marginal…
16th November 2021, 12:53
Max is a dirty racer!
16th November 2021, 13:08
nothing dirty about this and what lewis always did too. Makes sense on what lewis said as he expected already because he would do this also…
16th November 2021, 14:56
@macleod Lewis, and all drivers, squeeze the outside driver to force him to either lift or go off track, but always while remaining inside track limits, which Verstappen didn’t, and not by a few centimeters. Had Max stayed within track limits, there probably wouldn’t be an argument at all, just racing as usual. But the fact that Max didn’t make the corner is what separates this from anything remotely similar. Whether you consider this dirty or not, it clearly should have been penalized.
16th November 2021, 15:10
@warheart Not always at all. Lewis has gone off track a time or two, including an entirely different type of issue where he floored it off track at Turn 1 and didn’t let the pack catch up until they were well out of any kind of long straight on the track.
Any comment that suggests Hamilton is a clean racer or even always tries to be a clean racer is 100% ignored because Lewis is exactly the same kind of driver and that alone is why Nico only beat him once to the championship.
16th November 2021, 15:56
@neiana can you tell me one instance where Lewis has pushed someone wide while going off track himself at the same time and hasn’t been penalized for it?
mystic one (@mysticus)
16th November 2021, 18:13
@warheart in 2008 spa, he was pushed off the circuit by raikonnen, he cut the corner, and gave the position back, overtook him, raikonnen crashed out of the race all on his own alone, but ham was penalized for a rule that didnt exists until after the race and penalty given, they made up a rule right away, and 25 sec pen given!
here ham pushed off circuit blatantly, they couldnt even find the footage for nearly 2.5 days! what a piece of FIA ruling….
17th November 2021, 8:09
@warheart Still that does not make him a dirty driver! Senna Prost coming to each other that is dirty OR Schumancer and Hill into the wall that is dirty. This is just racing and a good example to remove those asfalt runoffs because this wouldn’t happen if there was gravel.
17th November 2021, 8:22
@macleod never said he was a dirty driver, although he’s far from being the cleanest on the grid. That was a dirty maneouvre, though. Had there been a gravel trap, the only difference would’ve been that Hamilton would’ve been out of the race as well, or they would’ve crashed. He either purposedly pushed Hamilton off the track, or he overshot the corner badly enough to need 5-6 metres of the runoff to turn the car.
Tell me something, do you thing Max would’ve attempted something like this if it was Bottas on the outside? Hamilton’s fighting for the championship, Bottas is there to help Hamilton and Mercedes, so he wouldn’t need any avoiding action. Just stay in the track, let Max crash into him. Both drivers out and a more than likely penalty for Max for the next race for causing an avoidable collision.
And, as I said in my previous comment, you claim this is “what Lewis always did too”, but you still haven’t mentioned a single instance where Hamilton has pushed someone wide while going 5 metres off track.
17th November 2021, 8:45
@warheart I think it was something between this scarying Lewis to brake squicing Lewis to let him brake. I think Max would made the turn if the was a gravel trap there. You could see that onboard he went to the runoff when Lewis went to there. I never thought they would crash at all if Max was planning this he would try to hit Lewis rear wheel in that corner as you saw at the start of the video Max right tyre was just next to Lewis rear wheel.
I don’t think he will needs this against Bottas maybe at the start of the race in turn 1.
17th November 2021, 9:01
Just so I’m clear, this means you don’t think Max had overshot the corner, but that he willingly pushed Hamilton off the track, right? Because I don’t see a third option.
17th November 2021, 9:10
@warheart push not really block yes
17th November 2021, 9:28
@macleod but in the process he went at least 5 metres wide, meaning he either wasn’t in control of the car (overshot the corner) or he was and willingly went off track. Was Max able to turn within track limits at this point? https://imgur.com/a/Jv3LuwN
If he was, there is no excuse for him to go into the runoff the way he did. He gained an advantage by doing so, and should be penalized. If he wasn’t, he had overshot the corner and forced Hamilton to do an evasive maneouvre to avoid an accident, and should be penalized. Divebombing another driver with this “you either avoid me off track or we’re crashing” mentality is as far from fair racing as it gets.
16th November 2021, 13:36
@72defender, I get what you’re saying but I think “dirty” is a bit extreme here. I dont like or agree with the move and I do wish the racing had been ‘cleaner’ as I don’t think he needed to defend that aggressively or go that far off. Perhaps a bit clumbsy or excessive. It’s more the sort of move you do, knowing it might be a bit much, and apologize for later.
Here are some things that I would consider truly dirty: intentionally made contact, pushed him into or very near a wall by not allowing enough space, or straight up crashed into Lewis knowing that it would benefit himself if both go out.
16th November 2021, 12:54
So it’s clear – on approach to the corner he didn’t apply anywhere near enough steering angle; only later does he apply full steering. Sneaky and predictable – I look forward to the review (purely to help him understand what is acceptable in regards to sportsmanship).
16th November 2021, 14:39
Be interesting to see a comparison with the previous lap, does he turn in sharp enough initially?
16th November 2021, 20:07
@theswift Exactly, he doesn’t apply enough steering lock to negotiate the corner until it’s too late. The state of his tyres is irrelevant, he wasn’t trying to make the apex.
17th November 2021, 8:05
You don’t turn your steering wheel UNTILL you have a certain speed you can turn. This is not a videogame where you can turn you wheel and the car goes around the corner. Ask any real racer and they will tell you this.
16th November 2021, 12:54
Max is a very clever driver. He brakes too late (we knew that of course) but you can see him keep his steering wheel straight or turn it left twice (too late). He never turns his steering wheel towards the right (the track doors that for him). I believe that will keep him off the hook.
Now, whether his braking was too late intentionally or not is impossible to prove. Therefore I cannot see the outcome being judged as anything else than a racing incident. Of course, Max has taken people off track intentionally before (like many other drivers), but I do not think the FIA or FOM (or whoever would adjudicate) would/can take this into consideration.
16th November 2021, 13:35
@learon it would be possible to compare the telemetry of his braking points in that corner in the laps leading up to this incident and just. Given that he’s on the inside of the corner and having to take a tighter line than normal, he should be braking several metres earlier than he did in the laps leading up to the incident, any later and he’s at fault
16th November 2021, 13:48
@3dom yes of course- thanks for point this out!
I assume that all the telemetry data is owned by the FIA, and that Mercedes cannot have access to Max’s data; so would there need to be a FIA-led investigation to take place for the comparison you suggest to happen?
16th November 2021, 14:33
@learon the stewards should have access to that information going by what we’ve been told, and from looking at this video I think they should at least have investigated it. I really wouldn’t be surprised if max started braking significantly deeper into that corner on only that one specific lap
16th November 2021, 12:57
Doesn’t really change anything. Was an obvious penalty before, is an obvious penalty now. If you brake too late to make the corner, and in doing so run your rival off track and fail to stay on it yourself, that’s obviously a penalty, no matter what your steering angle is.
I really don’t even see how this is up for debate. Opens the door for any driver to fly up the inside at any speed they want and use any run off to maintain that speed and their position. Unless of course the driver they’re racing turns in, and there’s a collision…then as we saw with Tsunoda and Stroll, that’s a 10 second penalty.
16th November 2021, 17:52
Alonso vs Kimi in Austin. Judges said that both at fault but because Alonso left no option for Kimi. It was therefore ok to Kimi to overtake off the track.
Now this one is a no brainer. Hamilton was not able to overtake or not able to keep it inside track limits. Alonso was at fault even if himself did not leave the track.
16th November 2021, 22:30
Yup, not having this video is no excuse for not applying a penalty, you can clearly see the sequence of events by the cars relative positions on the overhead view. As far as I’m aware there’s no information that the lack of this evidence affected the stewards’ decision though, just Masi stating the fact that they hadn’t seen it. The only thing this could have shown is intent, in which case a more severe penalty would be warranted.
16th November 2021, 12:57
the video is not available in your location
16th November 2021, 13:01
@nickthegreek try @nickthebrit
16th November 2021, 13:03
16th November 2021, 16:08
Made me chuckle…
16th November 2021, 13:00
As I suspected, it was similar to Rosberg’s move on Hamilton in 2016. Rosberg at least had the argument that he had a brake by wire problem. It looks like Verstappen wanted to really close the outside line based on his steering inputs. Whether he wanted to force Hamilton off the track or crash into him is actually questionable here. It’s kind of like a “chop” but in the middle of the corner rather than on the straight. It also reminds me of his move in Spain against Hamilton at the start. I’d be surprised if Mercedes decide to launch a request, that there will be a penalty because based on the steering inputs it looks borderline.
If Wolff says diplomacy is over, Mercedes should launch a protest. I have popcorn ready just like all incidents this year.
16th November 2021, 13:00
And it changes nothing.
Like I said initially looks like Max was defending the run to 5, he is half way into 4 when he opens the steering, it helps him get a better run to defend t5.
Both drivers missed the corner. Lewis could have gone for the over and under. Eventually Ham went with a similar move, a dummy in t1 and subsequent better exit on 3.
Brundle jumped too quickly and almost convinced everybody of his opinion, again.
16th November 2021, 13:03
You must be watching an entirely different clip. HAM didn’t miss the corner, he had nowhere to go.
16th November 2021, 13:23
@peartree Your bias really does know no bounds.
Hamilton was ahead going into the corner but couldn’t contiune with his line because Max was sliding across the track line a mad man. Hamilton can’t just stop and wait for Max to go sliding out of the way. He has to react to Max’s error to avoid contact.
16th November 2021, 13:51
16th November 2021, 14:01
To be fair to @peartree, Will Buxton, employed by FOM, also uses that argument against giving a penalty, even though it is so obviously flawed as an argument.
16th November 2021, 18:51
I can’t believe you actually typed this. Of course Lewis missed the corner – didn’t you see him taking avoiding action?
16th November 2021, 13:04
It is a very late turn in by Verstappen. You can see he is beginning to drift away from the apex but still doesn’t increase the steering input until later (when it is almost guaranteed to not make the corner). This seemed very similar to Rosberg in Austria 2016. I would argue Rosberg actually was more fairer as Rosberg at least himself made the corner himself without going off the track. And if Rosberg got a penalty for that, can’t see how Verstappen shouldn’t.
16th November 2021, 13:23
These were his quotes in the press conference: “We both of course, tried to be ahead into the corner, and so I braked a bit later to try and keep the position and the tyres were already a bit worn. So I was really on the edge of grip, so that’s why I think I was already not fully on the apex. And it’s a safer way, of just running a bit wide there.”
Point is, he can’t say he is on the edge of the grip is he is simply not putting enough steering input.
If you see Lewis’ onboard, you can see Lewis puts in a tight angle at first, increases it even more and then has to open up as Max hasn’t yet started turning in.
If you see Max’s onboard, his steering inputs start coming in only after he is ahead of Lewis, you see Lewis’ front wing disapear from the right edge of the video and Verstappen putting full steering lock in the same frame.
16th November 2021, 14:33
I don’t think the steering input would have made a difference – if he increased the steering input, he’d have just slid into Hamilton. He tried to break too late into the corner so from then, he was going wide whatever happened.
16th November 2021, 13:04
It’s not penalty worthy. Even Hamilton himself didn’t think so and said he’d have done the same – in an article on this site! Imagine the ridiculousness of calling to punish the guy after the race after a performance like that – it’s not like Hamilton needs any help here anymore! But of course nobody can ever cross a Mercedes or Hamilton, can they?
16th November 2021, 13:52
What next? Will Mercedes use the sim driver to recreate the scene after the race and try to pass that as a new evidence? It’d be stupid, right @rocketpanda? 😜
16th November 2021, 13:59
… you do remember that was after he was punted off the track at 51g and blamed continually for causing a collision, right? I mean if you want to compare two unrelated incidents with entirely disconnected outcomes sure, you do you.
16th November 2021, 17:58
If you’ve paid attention, you’ll see that I’m not comparing the incidents themselves but rather how a team could react and the lengths that they’d go to, to make a point. And how stupid they make themselves look in the process.
16th November 2021, 16:29
@rockgod Yeah it would be stupid since there was no investigation towards which they could present ‘new evidence.’ In the case of this incident, it was a racing one that was only noteworthy.
To call it as I see it based on the fact of the stewards not even investigating, which begs the question why, this was two amazing drivers vying for the WDC in a p___ing contest and neither wanted to cede to the other at that particular moment. They let it be a racing incident rather than interfering with the Championship in the stewards room. They will interfere for harsher things such as actual contact, but for this particular incident at this particular time, I’m glad they let it go.
16th November 2021, 18:01
This is the key. Lewis is punished for being intelligent enough to swerve and avoid contact with Max. There are too many such instances to list. Then suddenly the discussion becomes, “Oh it’s not worthy because there’s no contact”.
16th November 2021, 18:38
@rockgod How was LH punished?
16th November 2021, 18:42
@robbie In Brazil, he wasn’t because Verstappen couldn’t hold him up no matter how hard he tried. But it’s usually by losing a position (Spain) or a piece of bodywork (Imola) or worse DNF (Monza).
17th November 2021, 8:07
@robbie the stewards shouldn’t be intimidated into inaction by being scared about “impacting the championship” when the purpose of their role is that they are meant to uphold the rules irrespective of who they are investigating.
Would it have been considered acceptable to issue penalties if it had involved two drivers further down the field? Why is it considered acceptable to impact the championship when it involves a driver further down the field by penalising them, but not those at the front?
Frankly, I hate the attitude that rules can be bent or ignored because it involves the championship protagonists – the rules should be applied to them in the same way that it would to any other driver in the field. Why should the stewards engage in favouritism and bias by not holding those at the front to the same standards that they hold others further down the grid to?
Jay Menon (@jaymenon10)
16th November 2021, 18:17
I was thinking the same thing! If Toto calms down and wants have a bit of chuckle at Horner, he’d get Vandorne down to Interlagos and run simulations with a 2 year old car!
I wish we’d had the internet during 80s, the comments would have been gold.
17th November 2021, 8:25
@rocketpanda evidence of Max’s telemetry traces, particularly his speed and throttle traces, has also emerged and provides evidence contradicting Max’s claims that he just braked a bit later than usual.
When compared to his previous laps, it’s not just that Max was braking later and going at least 35-40kph faster than he normally would try to enter that corner at – it’s that Max is hitting the accelerator earlier in the corner than he normally would and using full throttle where he had been feathering the throttle previously.
Thus, at the point in the corner where he has claimed he was trying to slow down, the telemetry data suggests he is instead accelerating – there is thus a reasonable question to ask about whether the evidence from the telemetry data, which we know the stewards did not look at, suggests Max was behaving differently to what he has claimed he was doing.
16th November 2021, 13:09
Where is the concrete wall on the left side when we need it?
Luke S (@joeypropane)
16th November 2021, 13:14
As others have said, Max was very smart in the way he did it, but surely there was only ever 2 outcomes:
1 – Lewis turns in and makes contact
2 – They both go off track
I guess you could say, with great premonition, Lewis could have braked earlier and allowed Max to overshoot, in which case he absoutely would have had to give up the position if he did stay in front after joining… maybe that was his aim?
But ultimately, with the outcome we had, I don’t see how it wasn’t at least investigated.
16th November 2021, 13:30
This – as it stands, it leaves the stewards open to criticism like what Alonso has been giving then all year that race stewarding is at odds with the ‘let them race’ doctrine & is selective in it’s application, possibly weighted towards ‘the show’ and the confusing application of the rules is allowing some drivers to get away with competitive murder whilst others are being punished for lesser transgressions.
16th November 2021, 14:07
Yep, indeed @optimaximal, and Masi’s non explainers usually don’t help a thing (though sometimes they provide detail that makes it worse than we assumed like this time confirming the stewards only looked at what we all saw on the live feed, nothing else).
16th November 2021, 18:17
I don’t think Max was smart here at all. It is blatant for all to see he braked way too late. He won’t feel smart if he gets a penalty and loses more than second position he would have had if he had not performed this maneuver
Arnoud van Houwelingen (@kavu)
16th November 2021, 13:22
This footage doesn’t change anything. It is clear as day that he is not turning into Lewis as many people thought on social media.
I agree with Peter Windsor’s take on his youtube channel. If you overtake on the outside you put yourself in danger for the driver from the inside driving to defend and push you to the outside. why would this incident be any different than the incident between Verstappen and Leclerc in Austria. Verstappen didn’t get a penalty in this case either!
16th November 2021, 13:27
@kavu It’s quite simple, this is different because Verstappen didn’t stay on the track. Had Verstappen stayed on track then it would be fine, as his move in Spain, Imola, Austria vs Leclerc all were. This is very different.
16th November 2021, 13:35
But Verstappen went way off the track. He was clearly steering only slightly left and then steers dramatically harder once he’s nearly off the track, so why not steer that much tighter before then?
I’m sorry but this isn’t how racing operates. This is dirty driving it’s pure and simple. If he’d tried to actually make the corner and had just edged Hamilton out I’d be saying it was a fair racing manoeuvre and exciting to watch.
You simply cannot just drive someone well off the track like that.
16th November 2021, 14:25
16th November 2021, 16:46
@davidhunter13 “so why not steer that much tighter before then?” Because he had too much pace before then and had he tried to steer more left earlier he might have spun and collected LH. Max was only guilty of intentionally racing hard, which is why the stewards didn’t even investigate. Max and LH were (are) in a Championship battle in that corner and it was obvious neither wanted to cede. Sure Max is the ‘instigator’ here, but all he did was defend as hard as he possibly could. Max was ahead, then LH put himself ahead, and then Max got himself back ahead but obviously was then so deep that he had understeer, something LH has claimed time and time again when he would do this sort of thing to Nico.
Oh I agree, usually “You simply cannot just drive someone well off the track like that,”
so the fact that the stewards didn’t even investigate tells me they saw this more as a Championship dual than Max intentionally driving LH off the road. LH has done it many times to Nico. Max was intentionally doing everything in his power to keep LH behind, but he wasn’t being intentionally ‘dirty’ or whatever number of other descriptors that have been used. To me Masi and the stewards are sat there saying, hey, the world wants to see this Championship fight, they got through that unscathed, so let’s let them see it and not interfere with everything they do. I don’t expect Max nor any other driver to now think this is the best way to go about defending in a corner.
16th November 2021, 18:06
@robbie I’d love to know how you have the insider knowledge seemingly off limits to the rest of us. How could you possibly know “he wasn’t intentionally being dirty”? Did MV tell you that himself? I guess his weaving down the straight wasn’t intentionally dirty too. Or his frankly detestable remark to the FIA regarding the black and white flag. Horner level hypocrisy and your bias is embarrassing.
16th November 2021, 18:34
Jazz How do you have the insider knowledge seemingly off limits to the rest of us that Max was being intentionally dirty?
What I’m going by is first off the lack of investigation, and then from there it was LH’s own reaction. It just doesn’t have the feel to me from both those factors like this was seen as anything dirty, by those within F1, and rather it is just rabid LH/Mercedes fans that aren’t happy enough with LH’s emphatic win and want to see Max further disadvantaged in the next race, and are way more bent out of shape over this than LH himself.
16th November 2021, 19:22
@Robbie – you’re comparing this with previous Lewis vs Nico incidents but surely you’ll agree that Lewis always used to stay on track then. That’s the crucial difference. I’m not sure how you can also say he wasn’t being intentionally dirty here – in my opinion, the video actually shows that he was doing exactly that: he only really turned after confirming in his mirror that he’d pushed Lewis (by which time he was essentially off the track).
One could make the argument that racing hard is exactly what Lewis was doing at Silverstone but Max didn’t take avoiding action then (which Lewis did here).
16th November 2021, 19:59
Emma I don’t know that the difference of going off the track is that crucial as there were times when LH just barely stayed on track, but sure, even if he never went as wide as Max did on the weekend, it is about some ‘dirty’ move as some posters suggest, and I just don’t see it that way. Max was simply overcooking it trying to defend, and had understeer like LH has often claimed. That to me is the crucial part when it comes to this notion that Max was doing something dirty with which to begin, not whether he went off track after the fact. This discussion has become about his intent, and I maintain his intent was to race hard, and not to be dirty.
At Silverstone for sure LH was racing hard and what was different is that LH had only earned the right to be left space, and Max did that, but LH had never really had a strong position in spite of being left the inside line. And as we know from countless examples there is a point where one driver needs to leave room for the other, and then there comes a point where that lead driver can do a squeeze and take ownership of the corner. That’s what Max was doing in Silverstone. Remember the ruling was that LH hit Max. It’s only some posters that word it like Max hit LH. The onus was not on Max at that particular moment to make even more room for LH than he already had. The onus at that point was for LH to take the space afforded him and act accordingly knowing full well that the squeeze is often an inevitability, as he does it often himself. Instead he didn’t control his car and hit Max.
In Brazil Max didn’t control his car but they were side by side and fighting the corner out after having traded places being ahead of each other going into the corner. It was far more a side by side situation than Silverstone. It comes down to the fine details as to exactly how close the cars are and exactly what realistic chance one guy has over the other, i.e. who actually owns the corner and who is being overly optimistic. I suggest that the stewards let this go because both were vying for the corner as they traded places three times going into the corner, with Max leading as he started to go wide. They both left each other space going in, and yeah Max squeezed LH out, and yeah Max said he went off as it was safer, and I think due to his speed to have tried to jink the wheel left too much might have caused him to spin, and to me potentially spin into LH.
Yeah Max went in too hot for his line, and he understeered wide, and thankfully LH was able to go wide with him and they both lived to carry on the fight. That’s why LH called this the type of racing we want to see for the Championship. If LH didn’t think Max was doing anything other than pushing too hard to defend his position in the race and the Championship, I think he would have said so.