Russian karter accused of ‘Nazi salute’ disqualified by FIA over ‘reprehensible’ act

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The FIA condemned Russian kart racer Artem Severiukhin for his “reprehensible” behaviour after he was accused of performing a Nazi salute at an FIA karting event in April.

Severiukhin was disqualified from the event, losing his victory in the OK category at round one of the 2022 FIA Karting European Championship.

The FIA barred drivers from entering its events under Russian licences after the country invaded Ukraine in February. Severiukhin entered the karting round at the Kartodromo Internacional do Algarve in Portugal using an Italian licence.

Prior to the event he signed the FIA’s Driver Commitment which applies to Russian competitors and includes an undertaking to “not make any statements or comments, take any actions, or conduct myself in a manner that is prejudicial to the interests of the FIA, any competition, and/or motorsport generally.”

However the FIA stewards began an investigation after video appeared of Severiukhin raising his right arm during the post-race performance of Italy’s national anthem.

Following the investigation on April 22nd the stewards ruled Severiukhin had violated five clauses of the International Sporting Code, including the prohibition of “public incitement to violence or hatred”.

The stewards noted they “received after the competition a report from the FIA Karting race director and a report from the FIA Karting media coordinator regarding the facts that happened during the prize giving podium with [Severiukhin] whose behaviour can be considered as the ‘Nazi salute’. The stewards also received a video that clearly shows the behavior of the driver.”

Severiukhin posted a video apologising for his behaviour and the stewards noted his expression of regret. However they stated: “After hearing the entrant and the driver and check[ing] the video evidence, and even if the driver expressed his deep regret for his inappropriate gesture during the podium ceremony, the stewards consider this type of behaviour unacceptable and strongly reprehensible and against all motorsport regulatory standards.”

They confirmed their decision was “disqualification [from] the competition.”

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Shortly after footage of the incident appeared Ward Racing announced they had dropped Severiukhin from their team. They condemned his actions “in the strongest possible terms” and described them as “a manifestation of unsportsmanlike behaviour [and], an unacceptable violation of the ethical and moral sports codex.”

Severiukhin has taken no further part in the series. His disqualification promoted Tony Kart driver Joe Turney to victory in Portugal.

The rules Severiukhin violated

Severiukhin “caused moral injury” to the FIA, stewards ruled
The FIA stewards’ verdict on Severiukhin ruled he violated its Driver Commitment as well as “Articles 12.2.1 c) d) e) f) m) of the 2022 FIA International Sporting Code”. These are:

(c) Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally.

(d) Any pursuit of an objective contrary or opposed to those of the FIA.

(e) Any refusal or failure to apply decisions of the FIA.

(f) Any words, deeds or writings that have caused moral injury or loss to the FIA, its bodies, its members or its executive officers, and more generally on the interest of motor sport and on the values defended by the FIA.

(m) Any public incitement to violence or hatred.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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  • 96 comments on “Russian karter accused of ‘Nazi salute’ disqualified by FIA over ‘reprehensible’ act”

    1. What a massive overreaction.
      No wonder kids feel such stress and pressure these days.

      1. Are you kidding? At what point do you think it’s remotely acceptable to make such a gesture?

        Don’t give me the “kids are under pressure”, or “we’ve all made mistakes.”

        I don’t know if anyone, of any age, who would feel this is acceptable behaviour.

        And apologists and their comments such as this one are equally reprehensible.

        1. Fully agree. On top of that, Russia has a long record of issues with antisemitism. Such actions must be sanctioned, otherwise it could very easily get out of hand for the FIA.

        2. Just how many 15 year old kids do you know, @bradders?
          Not many, it seems.

          Most of them do dumb stuff sometimes – it’s just that this one did it in public.
          And then apologised for it – clearly having learned that it was unacceptable.

          And apologists and their comments such as this one are equally reprehensible.

          Ah well, there you go. I think people writing others off completely for one little thing is equally reprehensible.
          A little bit of open-mindedness and acceptance would go a long way.
          Kids are under pressure and we all do make mistakes. Fact.
          How stiff should the punishment be at that age, though? Career ending? That’d be pretty harsh.

          1. What suggests he’s clearly learned that it was unacceptable? Perhaps he just realised he screwed his career and said what he had to in order to try and fix the situation?

            If my son decided to do something like that in public, there would be serious consequences. In this situation, he’s at the mercy of a governing body who were already going out on a limb to let him compete despite the many calls for all Russians to be banned. He was allowed to race under the condition that he behaved himself but instead of doing that, he did something that would have landed him in serious trouble even without the war and the conditions he was racing under.

          2. How many do I know? I happen to have one. And his peer group is the same age.

            But of course, I called you out for defending a reprehensible action, so I mustn’t know what I’m talking about, clearly.

            What kids do you know who are under pressure to do a Nazi salute? What kids do you know who are pressured to use the iconography of a regime which perpetrated mass-murder?

            There should be incredibly serious consequences, otherwise this kind of behaviour becomes acceptable.

            He knew the consequences of this. He was warned, and he did it anyway. He deserves the punishment.

            Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

            1. @bradders

              He knew the consequences of this. He was warned, and he did it anyway.

              Did he? Was he?

              I know that when I was 15 I had not the slightest clue what a Nazi truly was, much less that there is a salute.

              Realistically, I probably didn’t start to grasp the weight of such things for another 15 years.

              Anecdotal, but I’m positive I wasn’t the only naive teenager around.

            2. What kids do you know who are under pressure to do a Nazi salute?

              None, but do I know of some who did it because they didn’t know what it meant or what consequences it carried.

              He knew the consequences of this.

              You know him personally, do you, @bradders?

              Put down your pitchfork and let him learn at his pace, Mr Perfect.

            3. I know that when I was 15 I had not the slightest clue what a Nazi truly was, much less that there is a salute.

              Cool. Not really sure what education system doesn’t touch on Nazi history at that age, but whatever.

            4. Put down your pitchfork and let him learn at his pace, Mr Perfect.

              I’m not the one sanctioning him, am I?

              Nice ad hominem, by the way. Real mature debating.

          3. So he did a dumb thing and you get rid of him. I don’t get why punishing someone for a dumb thing is bad? I’m sure this will be a good lesson and he can grow from it.

          4. Absolutely agree, S, massive overreaction. What exactly do people expect to happen if a 15 years old unknownlingly makes a nazi salute? Will some man take example from a kid who’s probably not even from the same country and start another regime? Unrealistic as it gets.

          5. I agree. On top of that he apologized. If he hadnt and stated it was a political expression of his it would be another story. The problem with todays society is they feel very easily insulted and feel a need to correct others.

        3. @bradders it certainly seems odd that, elsewhere, this same poster has demanded rigid adherence to the FIA’s rules and insisted on the FIA imposing extremely harsh penalties on drivers who are judged to exceed the rules. However, in this particular situation, this poster suddenly insists that the FIA should be ignoring its regulations and showing clemency that he would refuse to any other driver in a similar situation.

          1. Oh, here we go. Here’s anon to bring some more superiority to the table.
            Let’s treat all 15 year olds as adults then, shall we? He didn’t murder anyone, for goodness sake.

            Do I think sporting rules and safety regulations should be enforced rigidly? Yes, absolutely.
            Do I think this child (that’s an important distinction here) intended to break any rules and cause harm or distress to anyone? Nope. Give him a lesson, not a sentence.
            If he does it again, then throw the book – and the rest of the entire library – at him.

            1. That’s the distinction – Do I think this child intended to break any rules and cause harm or distress to anyone? I think he did. I was 15 once and I certainly knew that doing a Nazi salute wasn’t appropriate and I understood that it would cause harm. This was well before the age of wokeness that we’re now in when people should be more aware than ever. This was without me being asked to sign a document stating that I must not do anything like that…. I 100% understood that if I did a Nazi salute in public, there would be serious consequences!

            2. I was 15 once and I certainly knew that doing a Nazi salute wasn’t appropriate and I understood that it would cause harm.

              I can assure you that not all 15 year olds know this.

              As I’ve mentioned before – as an educator I’ve had students (some older than this karter) who thought it was fine to do this move with their friends, family and complete strangers. They’d seen it on youtube, and even experienced their (adult) family members doing it.
              Not the sharpest tools in the shed, perhaps, but once they were taught what it means and why it’s not right they didn’t do it again.

              I think we need to educate children first, then punish only when they deliberately and knowingly make bad choices.
              Cut them a little slack. It’s not fair or just to potentially ruin someone’s life at such a young age – especially after such an insignificant incident..

            3. He didn’t murder anyone, for goodness sake.

              No, merely glorified a regime that did on an industrial scale. Nothing wrong with that though, huh?

            4. S, try putting forth those arguments to those who might have lost relatives during the Holocaust, and when you realise quite how raw the emotions can still be, you might then start to realise that your behaviour comes across as trivialising and normalising such behaviour by dismissing such behaviour as “insignificant”, and aggressively bullying in the way that you want to shout down any criticism of this sort of action.

            5. @pete-baldwin I was 15 once too and can tell you that I absolutely had no clue about the weight and offensiveness of such symbols.

              Probably didn’t for another 15 after that.

              And as we approach a century into the future since the beginning, with each year people forget a little bit more.

              I’m sure there was symbolism from hundreds of years ago which we are entirely unaware of in the modern age.

              Not downplaying the symbolism and the atrocities for which it stands for. I’m merely suggesting that it’s not particularly unusual for a naive teenager to be clueless about it.

            6. No, merely glorified a regime that did on an industrial scale. Nothing wrong with that though, huh?

              Not if he didn’t know that was what he was doing, no, @bradders.

              S, try putting forth those arguments to those who might have lost relatives during the Holocaust

              I’m doing that right now anon – and clearly some people are first- or second-hand offended, as is their right.
              Equally, this kid is allowed to not fully understand the ramifications of this action at his age and level of maturity – and possibly due to where he grew up and the environment and education system he was surrounded by.

              I haven’t normalised anything. Stop being so dramatic.
              I’m trivialising it because that’s exactly what it is – an action that can mean something to some people, but not to others, depending on what they know and how much they know about it.

              Yeah, no aggressive bullying here doing the exact opposite, is there? /s
              Only a bunch of people arguing that some kid should lose his chance at a racing career and suffer damage to his public life indefinitely for one little action, that he may or may not have understood himself. He’s obviously not naive, he’s just a pathological mass murderer in the making….

            7. It sure has ‘political statement’ written all over it to punish a 15 year old. We are being governed by emotional not so intelligent people these days and it’s becoming a problem

        4. @bradders I agree, moral injuries are still injuries. Represent all types of injuries equally!
          He should have left all his aggression on track. This russian is a racist and a trump supporter

        5. Yes how dare he put his hand up!

      2. ady (@sixwheeler)
        13th May 2022, 15:18

        ‘Not doing a Nazi salute on a podium’ isn’t really a huge ask though

        1. “BuT tHe PrEsSuRe”

        2. Depends on if this child actually understood the ramifications of it.

          I’ll bet he does now. Doesn’t he deserve a second chance, though – without it completely ruining his life?

          1. How does this ruin his life completely? He’s 15. Good early lesson.

      3. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
        13th May 2022, 16:40

        Not doing nazi-salutes is neither a lot of pressure nor a low bar to clear.

        1. +1. I cannot believe some of the comments here. To even know what a Nazi salute is he must have studied some history. OK it might have been a foolish act by someone who is immature but he still knows. To claim otherwise is clearly ridiculous. I think the FIA decision is correct. Sometimes we do things in life that have long term consequences. That’s just the way thing are. You learn from your mistakes (we hope).

      4. Massive over reaction? Is that what the idiot Putin is doing too?

      5. Hey, know what I did when I was 13? I drew a swastika on my binder at school. I thought it looked cool. It’s very geometric, and a design that’s very pleasing to the eyes. Did I know it was related to the Nazis? Yep. That’s how I found out about it, because I saw it in my history textbook. Did I understand the commonly accepted connotation behind it? Nope. Do I feel differently about it now? Yep. Did the principal of the school destroy my entire academic career because of it? Thankfully, no. Perhaps it was because back then adults realized that children don’t actually know as much as adults. They’re not aware of the common consensus we’ve formed as to how to view things that have no inherent meaning.

        Mind you, it seems that most of the adults in the discussion, as well as the FIA, aren’t doing much better. It’s not a ‘Nazi salute’. It’s a ‘Roman salute’. It dates back to before fascism. Much as the swastika is an ancient sign of auspiciousness created by Indic cultures. So, maybe before condemning this kid, you might question what makes YOU so right.

        1. Cool story.

          I never drew swastikas. So I don’t feel the need to somehow justify it. But thanks.

          1. @bradders well done for just happening to know everything immediately at such a young age. What a hero.

            1. I’ve never claimed to know everything. I certainly knew the drawing symbols of an abhorrent regime was wrong.

              But nice argument by the way. The kind a 15 year old would deploy, in fact.

            2. @bradders

              I certainly knew the drawing symbols of an abhorrent regime was wrong.

              At 15 years of age, it’s not particularly unusual for an individual to not full grasp just how abhorrent the regime truly was. I certainly didn’t, and truly probably still don’t—although I do now recognise the symbolism. But only after taking an active interest modern history of which many simply don’t.

              If you personally did know these things, then good for you. But just because you did, doesn’t mean everyone else does (whether they should or not is irrelevant).

        2. So much this. I also drew swastikas on my books, having seen them before but being entirely clueless as to their symbolism.

          Come to think of it, I remember a friend of mine doing the Nazi salute at high school because it seemed like a cool move (double fist on the heart followed by straight arm). None of us knew what it symbolises.

          As you say, do we know better now? Absolutely we do. If I’m honest, I really didn’t learn the reality of symbolism for another 15 years—and even then the truth of the matter is that I will never truly understand it.

          1. @justrhysism @bradders and whoever S is. The funniest or rather most calamitous thing about this debacle is that both times this topic was hot, when it first happened and now as the outcome is heard, the comments that hot c3nnsor3th were from user

            1. *users that were not on either fence.
              This platform c3ns0r3th comments that highlighted how his gesture compares to other gestures. I replied to this other user (got deleted don’t know who he is)who got the “axe”, like my comment on the original thread, and he was “axed” too. The narrative is more important than the truth. Shame on this platform
              @justrhysism @bradders and S

        3. greasemonkey
          14th May 2022, 15:32

          Interesting salute detail wrt “it dates to before facism”….it kinda dates to exactly facism, of the Roman flavor.

          The term facism comes from the word fasces… “The fasces is an Italian symbol that had its origin in the Etruscan civilization and was passed on to ancient Rome, where it symbolized a magistrate’s power and jurisdiction.”

    2. Surely with a 15 year old kid the FIA could be educating him in why that was reprehensible rather than just throwing him on the trash heap?

      To be clear – I am in no way condoning his actions.

      1. @ahxshades Oh I’m sure he both got a lesson (whether he cares or will listen and learn is another thing) and was thrown on the trash heap where he belongs at the same time. He signed an agreement ahead of time not to do the very thing he did. He had to know there’d be consequences which is why I question whether he even cares. It seemed more important to him to get his ‘message’ across. Bye now.

        1. He signed an agreement ahead of time not to do the very thing he did.

          I’d love to see that wording. I’m betting the agreement he signed made no mention of it…

          I certainly think a lot of people are forgetting their youth.
          Or maybe they’ve been perfect all along.

          1. Sure, we can fully expect that agreement not to spell out every single possible way he could break it S, but he did sign that paper especially for Russian drivers to refrain from any symbolism and lines that could be seen to be controversial or politically toned.

            The gesture he made is amongst the best known symbols of racist symbolism and if a 15 year old driver the claim that he would not know he doing is going against the paper the FIA made him sign specifically and more generally doing something that would go against the FIA rules for how to behave during events and especially on the podium of such events.

            1. Like displaying the letter Z for example. The letter that has become offensive to most Westerners.

          2. I’d love to see that wording. I’m betting the agreement he signed made no mention of it…

            Maybe the governing body of an international sport doesn’t feel like it needs to educate and exclude the possibility of someone undertaking an action which is seen by the civilised world as appalling, fascist and threatening. Maybe it just thinks that competitors don’t need to be told “don’t throw a Nazi salute on the podium.”

            This is absolutely no fault of anyone other than the competitor.

          3. S Sure most of us including myself have likely done things in our youth that were ’imperfect,’ but we likely hadn’t just signed a document to agree to behave, and we likely weren’t standing on a podium with sponsors on our uniform.

    3. Meanwhile, Verstappen the golden goose for FIA goes Scott free for slurs against a whole race of people. Double standards much.

      https://www.racefans.net/2020/11/03/mongolian-government-urges-un-to-take-action-against-verstappen-and-red-bull/

      1. For sure not a moment to be proud of for Max, but he hasn’t gotten away Scott free as this keeps being brought up once in a while and that’s fair game. Let’s also remember that it was in the heat of the moment in his cockpit, and by that I don’t mean to excuse him, but just to point out FIA chose for us to hear what Max said, for the attention/storyline that would draw. I hope to never hear Max say something this derogatory again, and certainly would like FIA to not play off of these kinds of moments at their discretion from all drivers who no doubt have also used colourful/derogatory remarks in the heat of the moment. It’s not like Max goes out of his way to talk like this the vast vast majority of the time, nor is he doing special salutes on the podium.

        1. If he hasn’t got any reprimand/fine/punishment for this, he surely has gotten away with it. If we are giving him the benefit of “heat of the moment” shouldn’t it apply to this driver as well? Maybe he got swept away in the moment. Maybe the adrenalin of winning the race and being on podium got to him and he acted like an ass.

          People are saying that this kid should know the history and he must know the meaning of the symbol. Mind you Max was older when he said this. So should he not be held to the same standards?
          What this kid did is certainly not right but DSQ ? Really?

          For Max, it’s ok to physically push and assault a fellow driver, ok to spew racial slurs and not even get a f_ing 1-race ban but one half-assed gesture from a Russian kid and the FIA and the woke brigade are out for his blood.

      2. Should also be condemned and punished.

        1. Good to know the FIA has some common sense left.

          1. Oh yeah, they’ve demonstrated that with aplomb over the last 12 months.

    4. Now cue all the people who will try to tie themselves in knots, use technicalities and argue as hard as they can it wasn’t a Nazi salute – seems there are quite a few on this site.

      1. Try comparing his gesture (the entire sequence) with film from the Nuremburg rallies. There is a clear difference. But that’s apparently not allowed here.

        1. Thank you for proving my point. Also I don’t need to compare – it’s obvious what is shown in the video.

    5. I demand the offensive picture of his depiction gets deleted from this website!

    6. Being banned from karting won’t ruin his life, just his karting career, which is as it should be. Do disgusting, hurtful things, pay the consequences. As for second chances, maybe for his next career he’ll be more careful.

        1. He wasn’t banned from carting, he was banned from that competition and lost his title. His team has dropped him and I suspect it would be pretty hard for him to get on with anyone else, but he does have the option to try.

    7. I think the deeper question is why the hell is a 15 year old doing a Nazi salute, what has gone wrong there? I think he’s racing career is the least of he’s worries….

      1. @f1-ploss It certainly does make one wonder about his upbringing and his home life.

      2. Kids have always done stupid childish stuff, the only difference is that its now all recorded and catalogued.

        Goodness knows the lasting damage that would have been done to millions of lives if camera phones had been prevalent in the 80s and 90s

      3. Well a former FIA president dressed up and went to some nazi sex party.

        A former member of the British Royal Family dressed up like Nazi for a fancy dress party.

        Every weekend people dress up like nuns and priests for fetish parties.

    8. I’m not sure how I feel about this. It comes across to me as an ignorant 15 year old being really stupid and not really understanding what he was doing. I’d argue that Max Verstappen’s behaviour after the 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix was much worse. I don’t often see people inciting violence while giggling. On the other hand, the offence caused by such gestures cannot be understated and the penalty needs to make that clear.

      1. Yeah but in 2018 people were more sensible so there you go.

      2. And some argue that Ocon’s jealous behavior during the GP and taunting after the Brazilian GP was so disrespectful, he deserved a good smack.
        Perspective is fun!

    9. Apparently, substantive analysis is no longer welcome on this site. I’m surprised to see dissenting opinions being suppressed. I expect this post will be censored as well.

      1. ady (@sixwheeler)
        14th May 2022, 6:31

        Mate, try the scrolling up function on your mouse, there are tons of dissenting opinions up there

        1. Yes, but mine is no longer one of them. I suggested that his gesture was closer to “peace out” than “Heil!”, and my post vanished. Along with the response from another poster that THEIR message saying the same thing vanished.

    10. All Nazi symbols are inextricably linked to the industrialized mass extermination of millions of people because Nazis considered them to be beneath living. And no civilized society can tolerate that. Now you can try to explain away someone’s gesture in any number of ways, but anyone pulling that crap at 15 years old is old enough to be smacked the right way around for doing it. Figuratively, figuratively, calm down. But seriously, the only people who defend this kind of stuff are Nazis and the easily confused.

      1. But seriously, the only people who defend this kind of stuff are Nazis and the easily confused.

        That was serious?
        Can’t wait to hear one of your jokes then.

        Clearly I need to point out that there is just the most enormous chasm between defending a (probably naive and silly) child having what they think is a bit of harmless fun, and actually supporting the regime and beliefs that the action is tied to.
        Not that it’s been publicly proven yet that he actually knew what it meant at the time…

        I’d counter that the only people who shut this kid down so quickly are the ones who don’t listen to reason or seek information and balance on any other subject either. The type who make an initial emotional response their one and only response.

        But hey, we’re all different aren’t we.

        1. And it can equally be countered that the ones who “shut this kid down” are ones who are willing to ensure that this kind of iconography remains entirely unacceptable in any form whatsoever.

          But of course, they must be emotional.

        2. I’d counter that the only people who shut this kid down so quickly are the ones who don’t listen to reason or seek information and balance on any other subject either. The type who make an initial emotional response their one and only response.

          Nazi salutes require a strong emotional response. Of course, emotion and reason are not mutually exclusive. If at 15 you don’t know what that gesture means, but you know it enough to throw it around, that’s on you.

          1. Dang, that was supposed to be quote not bold : P

          2. Nazi salutes require a strong emotional response.

            Do they?
            I think it’s a very individual thing – both in regard to the receiver and the person who does it.
            Context is an important consideration, too. I don’t think we can say that a 10 year old who does it at home with their friends should be treated the same as a politician who does it in parliament, can we?
            One of them is most definitely expected to know better than the other.

            If at 15 you don’t know what that gesture means, but you know it enough to throw it around, that’s on you.

            That’s the point though, isn’t it? Just because he knows the gesture (or something similar) does not mean he knows what it stands for or why he shouldn’t do it.
            So if he doesn’t know it’s wrong – or exactly how wrong it is – why wouldn’t he do it? It’s an innocent action until he learns otherwise.

            So I say – educate him rather than sentence him. Then he will know, and can make an informed decision about whether or not to do it again in future.

            1. No, see, some things are beyond relativism. They’re just wrong, no matter the context. You know, like say rape, or oh I don’t know, let’s say extermination camps, just to pick a totally random example. If we can expect a 15 year old to not take a dump or play with himself or any number of things on a podium, then we can expect him not to throw a sieg heil. And you simply cannot convince me that anyone from Eastern Europe doesn’t know what that means at 15 years of age. It’s far too present in the historical culture and everyone learns about Nazis and what they did from a young age.

            2. Well, if I can’t convince you that it’s a legitimate possibility, then there’s not much point is saying any more is there?
              You’ve decided already that everyone’s life conforms to your expectations.
              Enjoy your box.

            3. Nice try, but no. I just told you from experince what children learn in Eastern Europe

            4. As far as I know, in his home country Russia it is also thought, even though the context of the “great war” is presented somewhat differently.

              Pretty sure there is not a single country in Europe where kids do not learn that. And maybe some parts of the USA have found ways to ban the books on that (thanks school board), but I would be quite surprised if most of them didn’t learn too @maciek, S.

              I know that in contrast to Europe, Nazi symbolism isn’t illegal altogether in the USA, but where would one even learn about the thing if not from imagery showing it in its context, so there really is no good reason to ever act as if you don’t know it is bad to do this in a very visible and public place (and yeah, especially after having just signed a paper not to do this a month ago).

            5. I just told you from experince what children learn in Eastern Europe

              What their taught – if they pay attention or aren’t absent…

              Everyone learns different things even when given the exact same pieces of information.

            6. but where would one even learn about the thing if not from imagery showing it in its context

              A snippet of video, perhaps? Can’t get much context from 20 seconds of that.

              I don’t think anyone is qualified to say definitively what other people know or don’t know. As such, I stand by my angle that it’s possible that he didn’t.

            7. What their taught – if they pay attention or aren’t absent…

              Everyone learns different things even when given the exact same pieces of information

              There you’re really reaching. It’s not like a one day lesson. It’s part and parcel of the culture. It’s like trying to imagine that any kid in the UK doesn’t know who the queen is.

      2. Yet, all Nazi symbolism has been stolen from other cultures and have far longer traditional meaning and symbolism…

        Things are extremely relative.

        1. You’re right, Nazi symbols are very relative to what the Nazis did.

      3. So you’re really going to tell followers of Hindu, Buddha, and Jainism, as well as a large swath of eastern countries, that their religious / luck symbol they’ve only been using for the past few thousand years, is no longer allowed? Hint, it’s called a swastika, which is an ancient sanskrit word / symbol. It’s been used by most major cultures and religions (including Christian) for millennia.

        In the American south, the Cross was appropriated by the KKK as a sign of racism, intolerance, and bigotry– and for a much longer period of time than the Third Reich.

        Do we need to ban the cross from all cathedrals and other Christian sites in Europe?

        1. Well, actually, banning the cross would be great, along with the churches, thank you. Ok just kidding…no I’m not. Anyhoo, yes that is all true and yet spiritual uses of the symbol are somehow never confused with the Nazi thing. Because you know a Nazi thing when you see one.

          1. Which brings me back to the article. I’m not sure I saw a Nazi thing on the podium. I think I saw a kid who was a bit careless with his hand gesture, and got his career destroyed as a result– as opposed to Wayne Hennessy who apparently successfully claimed to be stupid.

    11. Confirming the punishment by the stewards is in line with how the FIA tends to handle problems that are unlikely to recur (hard to imagine how this driver will get a karting or racing career going any time soon, given he’s managed to breach the agreement that allows Russians to race in a context where some other sports have been doing and the FIA currently isn’t sanctioning any events via its Russian NSA).

    12. Can you show me even one comment here that supports people doing this action in full knowledge of its history and meaning, @bradders?
      And yes, your responses do seem far more emotional than logical. You even specifically mention iconography – an emotional trigger.

      I repeat – there is a difference between (the belief of) having some harmless fun, and willingly and knowingly committing an act with the knowledge and intent of causing offence and distress.
      15 year olds generally are notoriously naive and incapable of considering widespread and long lasting consequences. They aren’t adults yet, and do not have the mental development and thought patterns of (sensible) grown adults.

      Let’s hope your teenager and their friends don’t ever do something they think is harmless fun, but then find out that it actually can hurt people – emotionally or otherwise.
      Do you condemn them too? Or educate them?

      1. How in earth is my use of the word “iconography” an indicator of emotional triggering?

        And it’s classy to call my parenting into question. Very classy.

        Doing a Nazi salute, or anything close to resembling one, is not harmless fun, regardless of age. As an educator, I’m astonished you’d defend it as such.

        Look man, I’m not going to spend my day going round in circles here. You want to defend someone who does such a thing, you knock yourself out. You have your opinion, I have mine. Neither of us are going to change each other’s minds, and I think we should leave this here, before the comments section becomes a total cesspool.

        1. Yep. Emotional.
          Even believing I’ve questioned your parenting…. If your child is human they will make mistakes too, just like the rest of us. Not a critique, just an unavoidable fact of life.

          As an educator, I’ve dealt with teenagers from many backgrounds and environments for decades.
          Maybe you were taught this stuff, but many just don’t know. When you don’t know, you don’t know whether it’s right or wrong. Not everyone jumps online to research whether something is okay or not before they do it.
          But good for you for knowing everything at such a young age. Not everyone does or is even capable of doing so.

          If you think the comments section is a cesspool because some people are simply trying to educate and promote acceptance while acknowledging that humans are imperfect, then that’s your problem.

          1. Righto. Pathetic.

            1. Don’t be too hard on yourself.

            2. What a witty retort.

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